Topic: My First Model

[karlgalster]

Hi Colin

I have a posting in Customers Models - actually a hyper link to my web-site as when I made my first posting I had not worked out how to attach photos directly!

Regards

Robin

[colin]

Hi Robin,
now i remember.... the gray cells are getting old... sorry

[agentfunky]

Seriously guys, thanks for the all the advice...

This forum is proving very helpful.

I used to love the acrylics. I'd mainly use Gunze Sangyo or Tamiya water/alcohol based acylics and I would reccomend them for the finish they give with an airbrush, but the Gunze stuff was banned some years ago by the Eurocrats and if it looks like the oil based humbrol is on it's way out then we are going to be knackered if we are all halfway through a model arn't we?


Tamiya is still available but I'm not sure how resilient the water/alcohol based paints are when applied to a working model.

Anyone any experience of these paints on a working model?

More to the point has anyone done any testing to see if the new paints are resilient enought to be used on a working model without flaking, staining or discolouration??

I think I will go with the car primers for the hull and use something different for the decking and superstructure.......

Damn those blasted eurocrats.....they are quick enought to ban little tins of paints but they are quite happy to see us all smoke ourselves to death

[agentfunky]

Well,

It's arrived...  The Deansmarine USS KIDD kit.

Its a lot different most of the kits I have built in my modelling career, but at this stage nothing seem insurmountable. The hardest part for me will probably be the vacformed smokestacks....I recon I mught have some trouble with getting them to fit together flush.

I got the CD with the kit and it does give some useful hints on how to work with vacformed plastics. So i'm hoping I will have a reasonable chance of working ourt a best way to do it but I suspect there is a lot of technique involved with the vac formed stuff.

I'm going to spend a good few days reading the destruction manual before I touch anything.

I've had a brief look at the instructions and looked at how the superstructure fits together. I'm thinking of using some of the L shaped plastruct strips to help provide some rigidity on the joints.....any suggestions?

[Belgium Crazy Team]

That a possible solution.
I always glue on the inside a strip that overlaps the 2 vacforms.
This strip can be used to glue them together.
Then it's the slow process of sanding, inspecting, filling the gaps with putty, re-sanding....

If you want to verify the result: paint the vacforms black (non gloss paint...) and hold it under TL lights.  You can spot immediately the imperfections....
Kurt

[colin]

for most of the joints (corners) were two pieces of plastic meet, all i do is add a little bit of scrap plastic on to the joint for strength.

most plastic glues weld the joint! so they are reasonably strong.

and any length of straight side that is over 5cm long i put a triangular upright to support the walls, anything over 5 cm High i put in a second floor in, or what would be in the instructions, a base plate were you build the superstructure around.

and i agree with Kurt, thats how i put Vac formings together as well. 

[agentfunky]

Thanks for that.

What putty do you use?

I've used Milliput and the Squadron putty but the Squadron stuff seems to melt the plastic, scar-ing any finished surface. The milliput is an epoxy putty and seemed rather tough, especially when sanding as the surrounding plastic always seemed to erode sater than the milliput.

I've heard that car body filler is often used on these models but I assume that is only on the hull due to the aggressive nature of the solvents in the filler.

Cheers

[colin]

i am not to sure about the aggressive nature of car body fillers, but yes, i use them for the inside of the Hull to smooth everything before the wooden/plastic deck supports are added, or for that matter anything that has anything to do with fiberglass.

i even use car body filler for gluing things into the Hull, for example: bowthruster!!! or for support around the proptube and rudder.

the other filler i use is from Humbrol or Revel, the only down fall with these two fillers is that they take about 8 hours to harden properly so they are sand able..

these fillers also melt/weld the plastic a little as they are based on plastic glue, hence the drying time

[Belgium Crazy Team]

I use a combination of:
- Car body fillers (with and without fibers always polyester based)
- Epoxy filler (mostly custom made on basis of normal epoxy with thixotropie powder) The powder helps in creating the epoxy non liquid.
- Milliput for the "outer skin" this allows you to retouch small areas

In the car body fillers you several types:
"regular" rather hard to sand and then you also have the easy sandable.  The last one I use on plastic.

You always will have to decide which filler you will use on which area.
For example you can use the epoxy filler when you want to fix something in the hull that won't be visible from the outside
the regular polyester filler for the visible parts of the hull (try to smooth these parts before adding something to the hull, it will be easier to work)

[agentfunky]

Thanks for that. I have some of the humbrol putty for the superstructure and wasn't sure if I could use the same filler on the hull. I'm still a little unsure which way to go but the easy sandable car body filler does seem to be a pretty good option, especially round the propshafts and rudder.

When fitting the internal components to the hull, will epoxy resin like devcon be suitable or is the car body filler a better bonding agent.....or do I use a combination of both?

I'm spending a good amount of time reading the instructions and getting the necessary equipment to do the construction.....

I've just constructed a purpose built work bench in my workshop for working on the model (as using the kitchen table seems to attract some unwanted frowning and tutting from the boss!)

The next thing I intend to purchase is the radio gear...... I'm looking to get a six channel radio and want to get a decent set.......not sure what to go for....I know Futaba used to be considered a good set but are there any others you might reccomend.....I suppose I ought to consider the range and availability of spares and accessories as well....?

Thanks for the advice....

[Belgium Crazy Team]

For fitting internal components in the hull you can use fast (5 minutes) epoxy.
When you glue you're motor support make sure that this alligned with the prop shafts.

For the remote control:
Try to look forward to new models so that when you build a new model you can reuse your radio instead of buying a new one...
Also try to stick to 1 brand because graupner and futaba does not use the same charging cable (polarity is changed)
Try several out before you buy, (look and feel) If prefer Graupner because the I don't like the holding of the futaba.
But this is something very personal, I know members who don't like my graupner(s) for the same thing.

[agentfunky]

Thanks,

I've been looking at the new Futaba all singing and dancing super dooper controllers (2.4ghz)........but I'm having my doubts about it in terms of its reliability, thanks to the recent recall and problems that I have hard of second hand where signal is lost.....

With a destroyer bowling down the lake at 12knots, I'd be mortified to loose control, it's not just the damage to your own boat is the damage to others that can be caused.

I've been looking at the F14 Navy, boot it looks like complete overkill for what I need, not to mention expensive. I can't see me using something that complex for many many years.

At the moment the Futaba Skysport seems like its favourite coming in at about £100.  What do others use?

[Belgium Crazy Team]

I use graupner MC14, MC16 and I have a multiplex cockpit (very small and light only for sailing)

In the club the members use:
futabas F14's F16, FC28,...
graupners MC10, MC12, 314, 6014, MC19 ...
Multiplex, cockpit, pico, 3000

As you can see almost all the range from every manufacturer is used
Everyone uses the one he likes.  This is the most important when buying a radio.

[colin]

my favorite and i have used it for that many years i can not remember buying it!!

is my all faithfully Graupner 4014 (no longer made) but can be found on Ebay!!

i also have 2x Graupner 6014, 2x Graupner 214 and a 414 (newer model of the 4014)

none of these transmitters are made anymore they have all been computerised and are called:
MC 10 or 12 this was the 214 (same housing)
MC 15/16 or up to the 24 this was the 6014 or 4014 (same housing)

my personal choice is as you see Grainer, but the F14 from tuba is a perfect start and you can always add to it in the future unlike the Tuba Sky Sports

the X-412 from Grainer is very similar to the Futaba Sky Sports!!!

to your Delmer about the 2.4Ghz sets..... i have seen a few in action but I'm not to sure wether they were from Graupner or Futaba, all i can say is: the people that were using them have never had any Problems with them!!!

as for Buying a new Radio, what about waiting until April, in Germany there is the Largest Model Exhibition in Europe, here you can pick up a Radio for a lot less, there are Bus loads of Brits that come over to see this Exhibition !!

[karlgalster]

Hi agentfuncky
Your post is going very well isn't it. On radio systems, on my earliest models I used Futaba Attack 40Mhz 2 channel which worked very well. On my destroyer as I wanted 3 channels I used Futaba Skysport 6 channel 40Mhz. I have noticed that the Attack uses AM whereas the Skysport uses FM. I wonder if anyone else has experienced that the FM is a better system. I have two boats using the FM Skysport and both have very good range and have their receive aerials run around the interior of the hull horizontally. With one of my earlier boats using AM and a horizontal aerial I could not get a workable system - poor range and cross talk between helm and rudder control. When I arranged the receive aerial to be vertical up a mast all was well. 

I note you talk about "12 knots" . That is far too fast for your model. For a 36knot destroyer at 96:1 scale true scale full speed is about 3.7knots i.e. about 4 mph. Even at that speed I get lakeside "experts" advising me that my boat is too fast and not scale. Imagine what the comments would be at 12knots!

I found that independent propeller control was not very usable. With prop shafts only 40mm apart independent control achieves very little - yes you can get it to turn on the spot when stopped but its a struggle. If your destroyer has just a single rudder between two props best mod you can do is increase the size of the rudder by at least 50%. Odd thing is that although in the real thing the single rudder works very well in models it does not seem to do so.

I use car repair kit epoxy (Davids for Halfords) for rudder post and prop shaft fixing. I reinforce the fixing with fibre glass matting. The kit comes with matting but it is very coarse. You can buy fine weave fibre glass matting or even tissue.This makes a very very tough fixing. I attach two photos showing Kelly installation prior to deck fixing. Kelly had two independent propulsion chains - 7.2v Nicad 2Ah battery. electronic controller, motor. If I was doing it again I would use a single 7.2v NiMH 3.4Ah battery a single controller driving the two motors in parallel.