Deans Marine
General Discussion => Customers Builds => Topic started by: hotjava on 25 September 2010, 21:56:19
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Hi,
I think the J/K Class Destroyers are very popular on this forum so I had to title my build "Oliver's HMS Kelly". I know Tommy is building the HMS Javelin and I hope to build one as fine as Robin's and Dicky's. Robin's was the inspiration behind my choice for this my first Deans Marine model. I'm using his model as visual reference.
Here is my progress on the HMS Kelly. I'll update this thread as I progess.
Deck Support
Deck supports are installed based on the guidance found in the instructions, the plywood deck pieces and the styrene deck, but even this wasn't enough to ensure a good fit. In particular, the printed deck at the stern was much narrower than the hull. So, what I did was turn the hull upside down and trace the deck onto a piece of cardboard and using that as a pattern, I placed it over the plans and the printed sheets and then adjusted the supports and styrene deck to fit. The deck framework is based on the openings found on the styrene deck and recommendations by Robin who's HMS Kelly inspired me to choose this model.
The bulkheads had similar fit problems where they were either too small or too large. Using a technique that Tommy on this forum used, I took solder and got the rough shape of the bulkheads which I redrew on the patterns. I then cut and sanded to shape.
The supports and bulkheads were epoxied to the hull using the "cheap, hobby store branded" 15 minute epoxy that I purchased at a local HobbyTown. It's not marine grade and in the past, I've found it durable for my R/C needs. Prior to gluing, I didn't use Bondo or other fillers. I simply washed the inside of the hull and lightly sanded the area where I wanted to glue. Then, I mixed epoxy with Microballoons filler. I've found Microballoons add joint strength and it acts as a good filler for gaps like where the stuffing box extends out of the hull.
In constructing the deck supports, I used nearly all the wood found in the kit - both ramin and balsa. Where I added more cross members than in the kit photos, I used bass or pine wood. In other words, I just used what was available from scrap. In areas where I had to shim the top of the deck so that they would be even, I used 1/16" balsa.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4132/5023397614_8dc678a1ed.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4126/5022786763_79726a7407.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4133/5023401270_3b91da2ef4.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4144/5023400228_9f15f67c38.jpg)
Rudder Support
I didn't use the brass rudder tube supplied with the kit. It was too thin. I made one from a tube with the same diameter but with thicker walls. Next, digging through my scrap box, I found a small piece of bass wood and drilling a hole in the center, I super glued the brass tube in place with about 1/8" of brass extending from the top and the bottom. Using epoxy, I glued the rudder support onto the hull and then glued a cross beam on top for added strength.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4107/5022788753_0275426653.jpg)
Oliver
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Hi,
Electronics
The electronics setup is pretty straightforward using a single Mtroniks Viper 20A ESC ( purchased from eBay UK ) powering two Deans Marines Kondor Motors wired in parallel with two 7.2V 2000mAh NIMHs purchased from Tower Hobbies.
The Kondor Motors rest on rubber material taken from the back of a mousepad and are held down with wire ties.
Here's a nice shot of them all together.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4110/5024753433_29303358d5_b.jpg)
The Futaba receiver is located near the bow.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4146/5024800425_1e783fdd18_b.jpg)
Oliver
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your moving on good there Oliver.... ^^^ nice to see you have started your Build
i have re-sized your Pictures in your last post as there were rather large, and breaking the boarders of the forum
when you use the "img" "/img" BBC code you can enter a Width and Height in the first "img" code
have a look at your last post in edit mode and you will see them.
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Colin,
Thanks! Will do!
Oliver
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Hi,
Propellers and Rudder
The propellors are locally made in Northern California by Gordon Briggs. I sent him the white metal ones and with those he made mine. Here's the drawing that he sent back.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4128/5092188529_e55c47aa53.jpg)
Gordon's propellers are wonderful and very economical at $25 for the pair. He makes "WWII destroyer" propellers but little did I know that he meant US destroyer style -- Gearing, Sumner and Fletcher -- but not British. If these don't work out, I'll visit George Sitek's site.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/5022785467_b768f46c20.jpg)
I made a mistake in the stuffing box. The correct distance between is 40mm. In the instructions -- not the plan -- they are "40 cntrs" or 40mm ( I'm not sure why the instructions don't just say 40mm instead of "40 cntrs" and why they were separated from the plans because that would have been easier to find ). In any case, I set the stuffing box before I realized the correct distance. So, my distance from propeller to propeller is 48mm.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4087/5043632844_346458b650.jpg)
My hull also lacked the drill dimples that would show where to place the struts. Robin was kind enough to supply me with the information based on his beautiful HMS Kelly.
The rudder is stock. If turning becomes an issue, I'll increase the size.
Have a good day!
Oliver
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slowly but surely your progressing.... doing a grand job.. ^^^
if you do have problems with your props there are Destroyer props in the Deans online shop 3 and 5 blades
click here for the 3 bladed (http://www.deansmarine.co.uk/shop/index.php/cPath/35_39_41_68)
if you have problems with your turning circle there is a speed controller that has two controllers in one and also a mixer, this will when the rudder moves slow the inside prop down and speed the outside prop up, if the ship is stationary it will send one motor forwards and the other in reverse, in other words turning on the spot.
click here for more info on the speed controller (http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/P94.pdf)
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Oliver looking good ^^^ yha i had the same question about 40cntrs/40mm i went with 40mm seem to work out fine.
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Hi Oliver, just got back from a hill walking trip so only just read your post. Your Kelly is looking really great - I like your support of the rudder post - mine was as the kit instructions and I hit an underwater obstruction and the post support failed. Now reinforced. My propellors look about 45mm apart.
Colin - I have independent control on Kelly and Z37 but its hardly worth the added complexity. For instance it takes an awfully long time to turn the model through 180 degrees with opposite thrusts and in any sort of wind you cannot turn the bow against the wind - I would not bother with indepedent control let alone a mixer - with props only 40mm apart with a 1.2 metre model its not really practical. On Z37 I do have a transmitter mounted switch to remotely switch between one (parallel ESC control) and two stick motor control but rarely use it except for docking in steering competitions, but even then it is tricky to balance port and starboard control in a confined space- one slight misjudgement and oops! :'( On the other hand Kelly might need a bigger rudder! :)
Robin
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Hi Colin, Tommy and Robin,
Thanks for the kind words and information. I appreciated the Action Electronics link. I had heard about them in another thread and it's nice to know there are options. I opted for brass props because the white metal ones required me to file and sand. They were also quite malleable. I took the lazy approach! I'll be sure and check out Deans' prop offerings as well.
I agonized over the 48mm for about a day and then realized that it really didn't matter because the HMS Kelly is such a fun build. Besides, I'm not a rivet counter and if it comes out looking half as good as Robin's and Dicky's, I'll be ecstatic!
Thanks all!
Oliver
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Hi,
Battery Holder
Here's something a little mundane. The instructions don't talk about how to secure the battery. So, like everyone else, I have a battery holder. My two batteries are located in front of the ESC or slightly forward of midship. I wanted something that would allow me to easily remove the batteries for charging and then just as easily put them back in. I also wanted something that would be removable just in case I decided to change the size/capacity of the batteries.
The battery holder is made from "L-shaped" ABS gray plastic strips by Plastruct and glued onto a small sheet of Tyvek. The ABS was purchased at a local model railroad store and the Tyvek was from a envelope courtesy of the United States Postal Office. Tyvek has paper-like qualities but is much more durable. The purpose of the Tyvek is to allow me to easily position and accurately secure the battery holder within the narrow hull.
To achieve a snug fit, I simply trace the two 7.2V 2000mAh batteries onto the Tyvek and then superglue the plastic strips which hold the battery in place so that they don't move while the model is underway. The entire holder is then taped to the bottom of the hull using foam double-sided tape.
Battery holder
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4083/5047786319_a7fbb94f8d.jpg)
Battery holder inside the hull
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/5049829551_456e19c513.jpg)
Battery holder with two batteries
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4103/5048407542_92085a895c.jpg)
Take care!
Oliver
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Hi Oliver,
Tyvek - never heard of it before but "Googling" it seems as though it is a useful material - interesting. Must admit my 2 7.2 volt 2000mAh batteries are not as well located as yours and sometimes require poking with a rod to remove any list! Not sure I can get my batteries out either without some surgery. They are Sanyo and good quality and appear to be of long life - hopefully.
Robin
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Hi Robin,
I'm glad to know that I was able to provide some new information that you didn't know about! I opted for the inexpensive Duratrax 7.2 2000mAh NIMH's from Tower Hobbies. We'll see how they'll fair. I'm quite sure your Sanyo batteries are way better than mine. Anything with Sanyo in them usually are.
Take care Robin,
Oliver
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Hi Oliver,
Hope you don't mind my asking but how did you decide on the location of the batteries? Reason for asking is that in my HMS Kelly I did some ballasting/trim test early on in the test tank (bath) and came to the conclusion that the batteries (by far the heaviest components) needed to be as far forward as I could place them. That is hard up against the bulkhead at the forecastle break. A factor my be that I used two Electronize ESCs which are quite bulky compared to your single small ESC. I did my ballasting tests early on with all electronic components roughly installed but little else apart from the running gear but of course with a watertight hull! I weighed the contents of the component trays and the plastic sheets. By some judicious placement of weights on the hull representing the measured components I decided that my batteries needed to be positioned forward. All this was of course with a wet finger in the air but it paid off when it came to final ballasting to the desired waterline. I shall continue in a second post as I am running out of space........... :'(
....to continue.
Another point - destroyer models have a habit of being a bit tender. They are very critical to vertical location of heavy items. You need to get the centre of gravity (or at least the marine engineering term for it) as low in th the hull as possible. One does tend to see destroyers heelling over dramatically with sudden helm control or a gust of wind. To minimise this I would suggest three things -
a) Aim to trim the ship as deep in the water as realistically possible - i.e ship in war time displacement with extra crew, maximum stores loaded, full ammo load, full bunker and fresh water tanks. "The Kellys" reference has a nice broadside photo of the Kelly at speed looking very low in the water. If you aim for this sort of waterline this will reduce the "tenderness".
b) I used the kit fittings on my HMS Kelly - it would be better to replace some of the items with scatch styrene parts. Things like the white metal ventilation panels which are very heavy white metal parts and mounted quite high, similarly depth charge rack - mount just one not two and replace the white metal parts with plastic.
c) DM use 1mm plastic almost everywhere for deckhouse construction. I did but for Z37 I replaced a lot of 1mm material with 0.75mm and 0.5mm and even 0.25mm where I could. Makes a difference to handling and looks better - e.g. vertical screens around the bridge.
Have Fun, Robin ;)
a little notice from the Admin; there is lots of space to type messages.
there is a couple of dark bars at the bottom of the post window, just above "lock this topic"
if you pull that down you will enlarge the window for the message.
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Hi Robin,
What great information! With regard to your question --
"How did you decide on the location of the batteries?"
I did one bath tub ballast test with ESC, motors, props, rudder, etc. and semi-confidently declared, "This is the place to put the batteries!" I'll re-ballast again once I have more of the superstructure and fittings in place. Fortunately, if need be, I can remove the double sided type and move the batteries forward. I too can only push the batteries up to the forecastle break. I have a bulkhead there.
Thanks for the advice on keeping the center of gravity down and low. I agree with your assessment. I had read those discussions regarding your beautiful Z37 and I believe Tommy is also very weight conscious with his HMS Javelin ( i.e. ventilation panels, etc. ). Where I can -- that is, if it is within my skill set and where economical -- I'll do that. I had intended on using as much of the parts and fittings from the kit.
And yes, one more thing. Your vertical screens around the bridge make a huge difference on the "look" of your HMS Kelly!
Take care Robin,
Oliver
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Oliver,
Make also sure that the batteries can't slide forward or aft...
When that happens when you our sailing it will get tricky...
Also plan to close all your hatches as good as you can. On a normal day you're not going to need them, but when you're sailing in rough weather, you will be happy that you can close them.
Nice progress btw!
regards
Kurt
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Hi Kurt,
I agree about the battery movement. On the battery holder, I have L-shaped tabs which prevent it from sliding fore and aft and left and right. I think/hope that'll be snug enough.
My biggest concern is waterproofing and I've heard solutions from screwing the hatches down to using grease.
Have a nice weekend and thanks for the information,
Oliver
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I've already used both...
Usualy the rudder hatch i "close" with some grease (make sure everthing is painted and all fittings are put on securely!)
regards
Kurt
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Hi Oliver, I haven't been on for a while so I might be a bit late with this.
This is where the batteries are positioned in my Javelin, they are two 7.2V 3700mAh placed on the base of the hull and pushed back against the motors.
The Rx and speed controller are under the bridge.The lead you can see was removed when the electrics were installed.
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/HMS%20Javelin/DSCF0314.jpg)
Sorry forgot to say I used the brass props from Deans, excellent.
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/HMS%20Javelin/DSCF2928.jpg)
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looking good............you know your hull is blue ::) lolol
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Hi Dicky,
Thanks for the photographs.
Your batteries like Robin's are more forward than mine. I'll re-ballast once I have more of the ship complete. I too thought about putting the ESC beneath the bridge, but I ended up putting only the receiver thinking that in the future -- long in the future -- that I might have more room to put in a sound system.
Appreciated the close-up shot of the Deans props. They look nice.
Tommy, the blue hull means that Dicky will always sail in good weather!
Thanks all,
Oliver
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Hi,
I thought I'd provide some information regarding the references that I'm using for my HMS Kelly.
References
For my primary reference, I'm using the Deans Marine plan as well as Robin Lee's excellent HMS Kelly (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/robinlee/kellypage.html) as a reference model as that was the inspiration behind my model selection. Robin was very kind and emailed me a number of his photos. In addition on this forum, there are a number of excellent completed models such as Dicky's HMS Javelin (http://www.deansmarine.co.uk/index.php?topic=217.0).
From the internet, I found John Dean's HMS Kelly (http://www.modelship.co.uk/hms_kelly.htm) and completed models of the J/K/N Class Destroyers by WEM helpful ( HMS Kelly (http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/wem/kit_wem_k3557.shtml), HMS Jervis (http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/dd/hms/jervis-350-aa/aa-index.html) and HMS Quality (http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/dd/hms/quality-350-aa/aa-index.html) ). Outside of the internet, I'm using the book The Kellys: 'J', 'K' and 'N' Class Destroyers of World War II by Christopher Langtree. This is a good book though I wish it had the general layout of the HMS Kelly. In fact, I've never come across a layout of the HMS Kelly other than the Deans Marine's plan.
Note that John Dean and WEM models are slightly different from the Deans Marine model. For example, the port walkway isn't straight like the Deans Marine kit. It resembles the starboard one. I don't know which one is correct, but when there are differences, the Deans Marine plan and Robin's model are the tie-breakers.
Other plans are available such as those from John Lambert (http://lambert-plans.com/) and a number of archives ( referenced in the Langtree book ), but to keep costs down and to keep things simple, these are my references.
Thanks and happy building!
Oliver
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Hi,
Hope everyone is well.
I've installed the deck.
Deck Installation
The most difficult part about the deck was the bow. The printed styrene wasn't symmetrical and didn't look like the plan. So, what I did was to redraw the bow. I also opened the holes for the hawse pipes so that the anchor chain could pass thru. Once the deck was in place, the hawse pipes open to a small plywood cup so that water won't enter the hull.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4126/5092188971_03988dae6b.jpg)
After sanding the styrene deck to shape, I leveled the deck with scrap balsa as wooden shims and using liberal amounts of 15 minute epoxy, I glued the deck onto the deck supports and allowed the deck to dry overnight. The next day, small gaps were filled with MMD ( Squadron ) White Putty and then wet sanded with 400 grit superfine wet sand paper until I got a fine even, dull surface.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4128/5188422567_eb6f69e620.jpg)
Thanks for reading and happy sailing,
Oliver
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I might be wrong. but on the photo where the electric motors can be seen, i noticed that the wiring of both motors is exact the same. ++ / -- you should have one motor running clockwise and one counterclockwise wich will not happen with the way they are connected now. as i see it. But as i said. i might be wrong.. :smiley1: :smiley1:
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Hi Oliver, I think dmbl has a point :-\ easy to put right of course. Coming along very nicely. Your work area is very tidy Oliver (unless you had a tidy up specially for the photo?). I am a very untidy worker myself, wish it was otherwise as I end up spending a lot of time searching for mislaid things >:(
Robin
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Hi,
Thank you for the observation, but the wiring is correct because the "wire" is switched at the barrier strip and not the motors. So, one motor spins clockwise and the other counter clockwise. So, she should move forward and backward hopefully well!
Robin, yes, I try to keep it tidy. I've never liked things cluttered and it prevents me from losing small parts. After seeing your models, I absolutely don't believe you that you are an untidy builder!
Again, thanks for the information.
Have a good sail or build this weekend you two!
Oliver
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did you get the hover out onto the workbench.. ;D ;D ;D
keep up the good work and you will have a brilliant model
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Oliver, looking at the "photo" again I can now see that it was one posted by DickyD of his Javelin so I owe you an apology :(
On the subject of workshops stand by to be shocked. Below is my workshop (dining room) in its natural state. You may wonder what my wife thinks of this state of affairs. What can I say - she is very tollerant (most of the time ???).
Robin
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tut tut robin.... :D ;D a very tolerant wife you have..
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Again, thanks for the information.
Have a good sail or build this weekend you two!
Oliver
As for me. it will be "building" I have a LOT sitting on my desk :-) right now its the refurbish of the mighty Dreadnought. She was hit by a celinglamp dropping down on her and damaging everything down to the ships deck.. >:D Well this made my decision on rebuilding her a bit easyer ^^^
Looking forward to see the progress of your beautifull model ^^^
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Robin,
I think messiness is over rated. It's the results that count and if I can come close to your HMS Kelly, I'll be happy. Maybe, I should make my desk more cluttered?
"dmbl", oh my! That must have been a horrible experience. I would have been devastated. Wishing you the best on her reconstruction.
Oliver
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Hi,
Hope all is well. I'm progressing with the bow and here's what I have.
Bow
Based on locations of the non-slip patterns found on the plan, I traced these onto the bow and then I cemented microfibers - small styrene square rods which came with the kit - to the bow. Using a #11 hobby knife, most of the rods were cut 10mm in length. Applying a drop of Testors Model Master Liquid Cement to the top edge of a medicine cap and using a fine-nosed tweezer I picked up and swiped the rod over the cement which was then glued to the bow.
Once all the non-slip rods were in place I allowed everything to dry overnight. The next day I wet sanded with 400 grit sandpaper. I only did this because the non-slip rods looked out of scale. I next cleaned up the white metal hawse pipes, cut out their centers and superglued them into position.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5208/5242639793_959225663e.jpg)
The breakwater was next. First, using a small drill press, I drilled out the holes for the six small triangles that make up the front support prior to cutting them out. Then, I cut out the three pieces that make up the breakwater. The front of the breakwater in my kit was shorter than what was found on the printed bow so I made a longer one. I also extended the side supports. I first glued the six triangle supports to the front of the breakwater and once dry, I glued the port and starboard supports. Here is the basic breakwater dry fitted to the bow.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5123/5243234982_a975d2d9ed.jpg)
I'm going to study the additional details that Robin added to his breakwater and see if I can't do my best to repeat the same. That's all for now.
Thanks for reading and happy building,
Oliver
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Hi Oliver
You are making a very neat and clean job of your Kelly. :)I know what you mean about the kit micro rod being a bit oversize - I did not use the kit rod at all I bought some strip from Evergreen who hail from Woodinville WA. They do an excellent range of various shapes of styrene extrusions. Saves the trouble of rubbing down from 1mmx1mm kit material.
Robin
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Slaters, a UK manufacture, also has lot of different sizes, mainly found in Model railway shops..
Assorted Microstrip packet; goes from 0.010" x 0.010" to 0.060" x 0.060" and near enough all sizes in between
and B.T.W
your doing a grand job Oliver.. ^^^
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Hi Robin and Colin,
Thank you! You are right. It would have been easier to replace the kit supplied microfibers. Robin, when I saw photos of your model, I wondered why your anti-slip patterns were so small! On mine, I think even after sanding, they look rather large.
Colin, I don't have access to Slaters styrene, but a model railroad shop nearby carries a full line of Evergreen styrene. Going forward, I'll use thinner rods, but I'll leave what I have on.
Have a nice day!
Oliver
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Just give it a light sand and it will look wonderfull.
good job!
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Hi,
Happy New Year Everyone! I hope everyone is having a great New Year with lots of building and sailing opportunities!
Thanks for the advice "Belgium Crazy". I sanded the anti-slip patterns and I'm satisfied with the results.
I haven't posted in a some time, but here are progress shots of the galley, the forward deck, the gun deck and the bridge without added details.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5018/5399225523_ae52490437_z.jpg)
The forward deck, loosely fitted with the gun deck and the bridge
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5179/5398322547_919070d8f7_z.jpg)
The forward deck loosely fitted on HMS Kelly
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5139/5398741895_15fd7f9c6f_z.jpg)
Undo and Redo After Done
As with all model building, measure carefully and think ahead. Otherwise, you'll end up with having to undo and redo what you've done like me.
I constructed the galley first ( this is the "L" shaped structure ). Then, after I test fitted the gun deck on top of the forward deck, I realized that the galley was taller than the forward deck. To correct, I removed the top and placed it inside of the galley so that the gun deck would cover evenly.
Following the pattern on the deck, I opened and placed the coamings before completing the forward deck. In hindsight, it would have been better to first build the forward structure and match that with the pattern on the deck. For me, the opening for the forward deck turned out to be 4cm too forward so that the back did not touch the galley. I simply moved the front coaming until they touched.
I think it all turned out pretty well.
Thanks for reading and happy building!
Oliver
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looking good Oliver ^^^ I have to play catch up now
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look very nice Oliver ^^^
as you have mentioned, it does help to build the superstructure before opening out the deck... and allways think ahead.. :wink1:
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Doing a really good job on the Kelly Oliver. :)
Robin
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Thanks Tommy, Colin and Robin!
I have appreciated all your help and advice. One of the more challenging parts of the build is finding photos of the bridge. Though the Christopher Langtree book is an excellent resource for the class, it lacks bridge drawings or photos.
I have been relying on the kit's plans, the photo CD and Robin's excellent model.
I did find John Haynes incredibly model of the HMS Ashanti, a Tribal Class Destoyer. (http://www.johnrhaynes.com/ashanti1.html) Even though that ship is a different class, the bridge "looks" similar ( I am making a big jump that they are similar! ).
Do you know of any other resources for bridge drawings and photos?
Thank you again!
Oliver
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your welcome Oliver.
as most of you on here know, Warships are not my cupa-tea, so i would not know were to look, although John Lamberts Plans is always a good place to look, for that sort of thing.
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You are right Oliver, details of the bridge equipment are not easy to find >:( The Langtree book does not provide much information at all. The JKN bridge equipment would probably have been very similar to the Tribals as the two classes were only about 1 year apart in build programmes. Most of the equipment would be identical or only a slight evolved version so you might as well base your bridge on the superb John Haynes model. Wonder where he got his information from? Wish I had seen that model when I was building mine :)
Robin
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PS use 0.25mm plastic for the extended edges around the bridge tops and the supports for them at right angles to the external sides of the bridge. Don't know what they are called or what their function is but from photos they look like they are made from thin sheet steel less than 1 inch thickness 96/1 scale that would be less than 0.25mm. Not sure what the kit uses but it will look too thick by far at anything greater than 0.5mm. You can use 1mm for everything except stuff where the plastic is displayed on edge and represents a sheet of steel (1mm at 96/1 scale is 3.8 inches!)
Robin
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I have this photo from when I was building HMS Tartar, a tribal class... maybe similar to the JKNs?
Hope this helps- excellent build so far!
James
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Colin, Robin and James,
Thanks for the information!
Colin, John Lambert has bridge plans for HMS Kelvin, but they're beyond my budget. His featured plans in Christopher Langtree's book are gourgeous!
Robin, thank you for the styrene advice. I'll run over to the model train store as I don't have any 0.25mm sheet styrene. Your model is helping immensely with my build! I think you are right. The bridges of the K/J/N and the Tribal classes "should be" about the same. I can't imagine them being too different.
James, thanks for the picture. It is indeed worth a thousand words!
Thanks again!
Oliver
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Hi,
Hope everyone is well. Here are more construction photos of the bridge of HMS Kelly.
The walls of the search light platforms are made with 0.5mm sheet styrene and the little support strips ( I don't know what they are called ) were cut from 1.09mm x 2.29mm strips ( HO Scale 4x8 ).
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4075/5439702617_237632628d.jpg)
Based on the location found on the plans and the Langtree book, the support strips were glued in place.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4075/5442786244_9f51c3234f.jpg)
All the support strips nicely in place. They'll be covered with 0.5mm sheet styrene.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5216/5446957179_859da8efc5.jpg)
Here's the bridge with the deck. Notice that the bridge has two support rails where the deck will glue in place. The top of the deck is raised with a PE walkway. This is a best guess from the limited references that I had.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5137/5465390163_75c6245c11.jpg)
More PE for the raised light sight.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5215/5465995176_fa8a82bdaf.jpg)
Here are all the platforms and the PE in place.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5254/5465399767_5537447d75.jpg)
Adding little details to the front of the deck. Much of it guesswork and from what I could garner from John Haynes HMS Ashanti and the photo by "ship's doctor."
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5292/5503426203_189a7783a7.jpg)
The deck glued to the bridge.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5019/5503428237_aef680b0f4.jpg)
More little details added.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5051/5525166318_eee30d6d28.jpg)
The bridge is glued to the gun deck. The windscreen and it's base is now glued on.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5132/5542805187_c572811db1.jpg)
The nearly completed bridge with shelter sides in place.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5131/5549323776_4846bf2d56.jpg)
The PE grates or "barbecue grills" as I call them are from Masterpieces in Miniature (http://www.minmbox387.com/). These are used for radar or walkways on American warships. Besides the kit's plans, Robin's HMS Kelly and Christopher Langtree's The Kelly's ( which I frequented with a magnifying glass! ), bridge details are from John Haynes' HMS Ashanti (http://www.johnrhaynes.com/ashanti1.html) and the photo posted by "ship's doctor" on this thread. Admittedly, much of it is guesswork as I did not pursue other references ( ex. John Lambert's bridge drawings for the J/K/N destroyers ).
Happy Spring Sailing!
Oliver
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Oliver if u like John Haynes makes a VERY nice director for the aft part of the bridge, got one myself and wow! he also makes P.E deck greating as well ^^^
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Hi Tommy,
Hope you are well.
Yes, I saw the John Haynes director and grate. They are very beautiful, but I am on a budget and I am trying hard to source accessories locally.
How is your HMS Javelin coming along?
Take care,
Oliver
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Looking very good Oliver. By the way I trust you are going to throw away the vacuum formed director as supplied in the kit. From photos the actual director is very much sharp edged and the kit item is unfortunately round edged due to the limitations of the manufactuaring process. I made mine from a short length of 2cm diameter electrical plastic conduit and 0.5mm sheet styrene for the flat surfaces including the top. :P
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coming on along nicely ^^^ ^^^
this might even convince me to build one of the Gray Fleet one day.. ;D ;D
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Hey Oliver.. all is good. had to take a break for a while.....its called finishing the basement and still not done... am starting work on my Javalin , the hull will be set up for running in a few weeks.. I would do what Robin sugested if your on a tight budget, the director in the kit kinda needs a lot of work to get it right.
Tom
Also i am getting info for my next project. I bough the HMS Amethyst kit and will convert it to the HMS Starling ^^^ cant wait for this one
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Hi Robin and Tommy,
Thanks for the advice on the director.
Langtree's book has a good diagram of it. Let's see what I can do. Perhaps, the kit supplied one can be "hacked" to make it look right.
Colin, yes building these are fun and interesting. I cannot wait to get this all done and put her in the lake!
Take care everyone,
Oliver
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Oliver there has to be some other ship modelers close to you that might have a lathe. you could turn one out of PVC real easy.. :) there was no way i could get the kit director to ever fit together let alone look good.. are you near San Fran?
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Hi Oliver,
This maybe a long shot :-\, but if you have access to a 3D CAD system, you can produce very good, hollow, items now by using the site below;
www.shapeways.com (http://www.shapeways.com)
I have been experimenting with some turrets for the G3
http://www.shapeways.com/model/227907/6_inch_turret_redesign1.html?gid=a321 (http://www.shapeways.com/model/227907/6_inch_turret_redesign1.html?gid=a321)
and they are looking very good from the sample I have produced.
The weight is light and they paint well.
Mark
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were inspiring Colin ^^^ so which one would you build...... :)
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can only be one of the early 1900's... (eg Hannibal or Sentinel) :D
then again, HMS Bramble would be towards the top of my list for the modern types..
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Hi Tommy and Mark,
Unfortunately, I don't know anyone with a lathe and I have zero CAD skills ( Mark, the site you sent me is amazing ). In the worse case, if I'm unable to fabricate the director, I'll buy one. Let see where this goes.
Good sailing and building!
Oliver
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Hi Oliver,
Use the Deans Marine director base made of compound base as it looks pretty good. For the director top housing find a d.i.y. store for the electrician's plastic conduit tube of the correct diameter, (Ok may have to compromise here a bit but give or take a millimeter nobody else will know ::DD shhhhh!). The rest is easy with styrene sheet etc. :)
As you said the "kellys" reference book has a good drawing of the director.
Regards
Robin
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Hi Robin,
Thanks for the information! I'll check that out!
Oliver
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Hows it going Oliver??
It's been a while now :wink1:
Ben
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Hi Everyone,
Ben, I've been pretty busy but believe it or not, I've made progress. I just haven't had time to write. However, here are the latest photos (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60863215@N00/sets/72157624836344526/?page=2).
I completed the aft deck housing, added PE portholes to the bridge and the aft deck housing, finished the mast and the funnel. I'm working on the pom pom platform.
The mast was the most difficult as my brass soldering skills are atrocious. After spending a few weeks on that ( yes, a few weeks! ), it finally turned out looking acceptable when Tommy suggested - for top heavy considerations - that I use carbon fiber. Before brass, I had tried aluminum and styrene. The former was very difficult to work with and the latter was simply too flimsy. So, at some point, I'll rebuild the mast with carbon fiber.
Well, enjoy the photos. I'll add some verbage at some point later on.
Thanks all and sorry for the delay.
Oliver
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looking good on the detail Oliver! ^^^
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have to agree with Tommy ^^^
and the soldering does not look that bad at all, i have seen worse.. ;)
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Great work! ^^^ 8)
And do not worry about the time spent on the 'material trials'. I guess that most of us made similar experience at least once in their ship modelling career. Just keep going.
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Its coming on in leaps and bounds Oliver, keep up the good work. Had any thoughts about painting it yet?
Robin
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Brilliant Oliver, soldering looks loads better than mine, whole build does to be honest! Well done! ^^^ ^^^ ^^^
Ben
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Very nice - an accomlpished build Oliver. I have HMS Daring to convert to HMS Intrepid 1943 once I have completed my Type 12 HMS Yarmouth (cant post the build blog on here as its not one of Rons! http://rcmb.forumotion.com/t34-hms-yarmouth (http://rcmb.forumotion.com/t34-hms-yarmouth)) and if my build is half as good as yours I will be happy indeed.
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Hi Everyone,
Wow! Thanks for the encouragement. I don't think I'd be making half the progress if it were not for the help on this board. You guys are great. Seeing all of your models has been inspirational.
Robin, I'll be painting the HMS Kelly in the same - or close to the same - colors as yours. I really like your model. I'll be using Tamiya acrylics as those are easier for me to obtain than Humbrol here in the U.S.
Well, have a great summer everyone!
Oliver
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Hi Oliver,
Do you intend to air brush the acrylics? The reason I ask is that I always airbrushed enamel paint but I did try acrylic airbrushing but abandoned it as my airbrush kept on blocking :'(. Some on this forum do use acrylics I know - wish I had the skill to use them >:(.
Robin
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Hi Robin,
Yes, I have an airbrush and that's what I'll use. I've never had problems with clogging, but I am concerned about water marks. I noticed that with acrylics once they get wet, they discolor the paint. In other words, they leave water marks. When I flew, I painted my R/C airplanes with Tamiya acrylics and after morning flights, there would be streak marks on the paint from the dew.
I'm going to seal the paint and see if the marks still appear. Once again, it's going to be trial and error!
Have a great weekend Robin!
Oliver
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Hey Oliver i have found that the acrylics when i tryed them dident hold up very well to the water environment when sailing, the paint kinda had a fog to and discolored. maybe some of the other guys had better luck with the acrylics. if you can try to find "model Master" by tester and the color that i found that is nearly a dead nuts match for the Humbrol matt light gray 147 is Model Master light sea gray FS 36307 its a enamel and holds up to the water at the pond better as for the underside hull red i use the stuff from the auto parts store in the spray cans, the red brown auto primer. i get a whole can of it cuse youl need it for touch ups when you run it a-ground :'( remember to us sailors land is a navigational hazard :)
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paint i use
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Oliver,
Well build, take your time and you will create a jewel.
Take also your time for "material trials", sometimes you will "invent" something usefull.
For the masts I use a carbon rod (the upper part of a fishing line)
Now for airbrushing:
I use acrilic paints a lot. (the end coat is a satin varnish)
Remember to thin the paint you use to go with your airbrush. Keep your "rejected" build parts and use them as pre airbrush test.
Kurt
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Hi Tommy and Kurt,
Sorry for the slow reply. Thank you for the advice. I'll consider using the Testor enamel paints though I really hate using enamel thinner when airbrushing. It's so much easier to mix and clean with acrylics.
I think it's time for me to experiment!
Tommy, I like the idea of using the red-brown auto primer as well as the enamel base spray coat of Testor's gray. Thanks for the photo of that. Kurt, yeah, I think I'll have to make another mast in the near future! Kurt, what is the satin varnish you use for your acrylics?
Thanks again and have a great day!
Oliver
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Oliver,
I use this: http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/gb/model-air-gb.html (http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/gb/model-air-gb.html) (the satin varnish of them) or the varnish of Golden: http://www.goldenpaints.com/products/varnish (http://www.goldenpaints.com/products/varnish)
And I also "love" to clean out the airbrush after 2hours of airbrushing...
But that is the most important part when using an airbrush (I ease it up with an ultrasonic cleaner)
The red-brown primer i also use for the hull.
Before I start with painting the models I coat everything in a base grey auto primer. With this primer, all the guidelines are already covered and everything has the same colour. Here you can already spot some faults that weren't visible on the plastic, so take your time to clean everything up.
Then I coat everything in the correct colour.
Regards
Kurt
Kurt
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Hi Oliver, you have gone a bit quiet so to inspire you take a look at Kelly at full power a few days ago on a greyish day at Essex Country Show. After 30 minutes of charging about during which she took quite a lot of water on deck some found its way bellow but not serious (only half an inch :o).
Robin
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Im inspired ^^^
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very nice ^^^
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Robin what color did you use for the deck in the area of the anchor windless
Thanks Tom
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Hi Tom,
The Deans Marine kit info specified Red Oxide. I used Humbrol 100 (matt Red Brown) as a close match. Used the same paint on the quarterdeck. Most of the other deck surfaces were painted Humbrol 62 (matt leather) as specified by DM except the iron deck that being Humbrol metallic 53 (gunmetal).
Robin
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Robin,
I second what Tommy said. I'm inspired! I'm going to paint my Kelly as close as possible to yours Robin! I just love that look!
I'm really sorry for not updating my build thread. Let me see what I can come up with this week.
It's been really busy at work though I have been building. I'm working on the torpedo tubes. They have a lot of flash and everyday I work a few minutes to clean those up. Progress is slow, but enjoyable.
Take care everyone and again, my apologies.
Oliver
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Kurt,
Great suggestions! Thank you!
I'll look for the satin finishes in the states.
Have a nice day!
Oliver
Oliver,
I use this: http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/gb/model-air-gb.html (http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/gb/model-air-gb.html) (the satin varnish of them) or the varnish of Golden: http://www.goldenpaints.com/products/varnish (http://www.goldenpaints.com/products/varnish)
And I also "love" to clean out the airbrush after 2hours of airbrushing...
But that is the most important part when using an airbrush (I ease it up with an ultrasonic cleaner)
The red-brown primer i also use for the hull.
Before I start with painting the models I coat everything in a base grey auto primer. With this primer, all the guidelines are already covered and everything has the same colour. Here you can already spot some faults that weren't visible on the plastic, so take your time to clean everything up.
Then I coat everything in the correct colour.
Regards
Kurt
Kurt
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Hi Oliver, whats happening. Nothing posted for 120 days.
Have you finished yet ?
My Javelin is still going well
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/HMS%20Javelin/DSCF2980-Copy.jpg)
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/HMS%20Javelin/DSCF29822.jpg)
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Yes I was wondering the same thing DickyD. I hope nothing is amiss.
By the way your Javelin is looking very good on the water. Most realistic. :)
Robin
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Hey Oliver maybe you should tell all why you are so busy.....that new addition to your family ^^^
saw a pic you posted on F.B. a couple months ago :)
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Hi there. I just got my self a HMS KELLY kit. but I have jumped in at the deep end. and need some help. what I need is to find out is what running gear do I need to get for it and any advice. Im a farst learner so hopefully pick it up quicky
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I would call up deans direct they have the motors props u joints everything to get you started
Tom
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Hi
Are you working from plans. i would give my teeth for them!
John
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Hello John,
as far as i know, he is working from the Deans Kit Plans... and a few books for Information..
hope this helps..
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I think Oliver was going by the plan set that was in the kit.. I don't think he got his hands on a copy of "The Kellys"
its a little on the pricy side.
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oliver where did you obtain those brass etchins for the portholes from for your hms kelly they look great regards rowly.
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He has used Toms Model Works portholes...
http://www.tomsmodelworks.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=23_37
Other portholes available here...
http://www.hobby-lobby-modellbau.com/onlineshop/index.php/cat/c466_Bullaugen.html
Another simple and cheap way would be to use what I did on my Enchantress
https://www.deansmarine.co.uk/index.php?topic=1162.msg9144#msg9144