Deans Marine

General Discussion => Customers Builds => Topic started by: paul swainson on 23 August 2013, 13:23:58

Title: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 23 August 2013, 13:23:58
I have just about finished the build of HMS Solebay and have been looking at two new builds.  The long term one is HMS Illustrious from 1942 to 1950.   I have been looking around for information and I do not seem to be able to get hold of ship plans with out paying an arm and a leg.   Has any one done the same and have a set of plans that I could use to help me build her.   I believe there is also a book on HMS Illustrious does any one know the book code number for her.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: andy on 23 August 2013, 14:41:45
There is a series of books called "Anatomy of the Ship" and they have a book on the HMS Victorious. You may want to take a look at.

Andy
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 23 August 2013, 14:44:37
Hi Paul
Talk about jumping in with both feet, If you are sticking to 1:96 scale have you thought about the size of her roughly 7. 3/4 feet long and about 1 foot beam, hope you do mate, will watch with interest.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 23 August 2013, 17:28:57
Yes Joe, I have seen the size a club member is building HMS Illustrious the last one with the left ramp on the bow.  He has been working on it on and off for 5 years.   I want a long project along with a short one like the Hospital ship Stolaf.  So I have started to look for hulls or plans.   I might even build my own hull if I can get the correct plans.   The Deans Marine have a hull which is not accurate below the water line but its not too far out.   So once I have a set of plans and see what the difference is I will by the Hull and then use the list of parts Deans have got that would suit this ship.  I spoke with Deans this afternoon about her and I quite like the price.   They do not have one in stock they will need to make one, it will take about a week.   The size is large and will require some thinking on transporting.  I have heard that a member of this forum has build one and cut it in half and bolts it together at the water.   I hear he along with others may be at the Deans Open day.  So may be I should drive down and see.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 23 August 2013, 17:49:46
Sounds like a great project Paul more power to you hope you find all the "bits" for the build.  Joe
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 24 August 2013, 11:31:45
There is a series of books called "Anatomy of the Ship" and they have a book on the HMS Victorious. You may want to take a look at.

Andy
Hi Andy,  Yes I am looking out for one but the cost seems to be around ?50.00 plus and a new one in the hundreds.  So I am looking out for an Ebook or a really low price second hand book.   But the plans would be the best then I have some think to compare with and measure.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: rondean on 24 August 2013, 15:03:28
Bob says he will try to be at the show on the Sunday with the model for you to look at, and you can contact him through Deans Marine, they will give you his phone number.
some pics of his model for you passed on to us to put on the site
 hope this helps
 Regards
 Deans Marine
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: rondean on 24 August 2013, 15:04:33
and some more
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 24 August 2013, 18:17:04
Thanks Ron,  I will try to arrange my weekends so that I can try to drive down or take the train.  Will let you know what I am doing.   The hull that was used on this model was it a Deans  mould? Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: colin on 24 August 2013, 18:28:08
i would say yes ....  ^^^  ^^^

Mouldeans Hull for Illustrious (http://www.deansmarine.co.uk/mpage/Products/illustrious.html)

Mouldeans Website (http://www.deansmarine.co.uk/mpage/)

Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 26 September 2013, 22:17:20
Well now that I have stopped work,(retired as of now to day was my last day) I can get down to planing my next build.  Off to the printers to see if the plans I got will print out to a full 1/96 scale for the ship.   Then finish off fitting the crew to HMS Solebay and put her in dry dock while I am away.  Once I know I have plans then the next step is to get the main parts of the build from Deans.   I still do not know if I want to try to build the hull from the sections or get a moulded hull.   Read so much about having to make adjustment for the section measurements from the plans that I will need to seek advise from some one who has done a hull from the plans and work with the sections. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 26 September 2013, 22:51:05
Hi Paul, congratulations on your retirement, I hope you enjoy it as much as I do after 50 years working you can do what you want when you want, well with her in doors permission of course lol. . Joe
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 29 September 2013, 18:54:20
Have now acquire a copy of the Aircraft Carriers of the world, 1914 to the present day by Rodger Chesneau.  Also got a book on Destroyers by Antony Preston.   Got them at the local charity shop, still hopping to find a copy of The Anatomy of Ships HMS Victorious.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: cabin boy on 29 September 2013, 19:31:34
Hi Paul Congrats on your retirement, a whole new adventure, with the time to enjoy it. Have a great time Regards Clive
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 30 December 2013, 09:45:08
Well update on my new build for 2014.   Have a nice copy of the Anatomy of Ships HMS Victorious which will guide me on my new build.   Have been collecting die cast models of Spitfires for the flight deck.  The scale is 1/100 which is the next size I can get.   Have arranged with a UK company to supply me 20 at a price of ?4.99 each.   So some will have their wins cut and folded up for deck storage.  So with the 1/96 plans I only have to order the hull and the other items Deans ave for the build.  Hope every one had a great Xmas.  Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 30 December 2013, 16:16:32
Hi Paul, Happy new year to you and I look forward to your next build. Joe
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: mikearace on 30 December 2013, 19:32:04
Well good luck with it Im sure it will be a satisfying build.  If the spits are die cast @20 in your ACG that might be an awful lot of extra top weight.  I know its a substantial hull and beamy but any thoughts on if there will be any adverse impact on so much extra weight high up at Flight Deck level from them all?
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Fighting Sailor on 30 December 2013, 23:00:28
Hi Paul,

My buddy in L.A. Ca.  Mike Ploeger has built the most beautiful 1/96 model of USS Shangri La and can give you some great advice as to how to proceed.  He also came up with his own castings for the aircraft which are hollow, very light and very detailed.  You can look him up on the modelwarshipsunderway forums. He is a member of Task Force 96.  I have several of his aircraft which I am incorperating into a future project USS San Jacinto CVL 31...   The forum is located at: www.modelwarshipsunderway.com (http://www.modelwarshipsunderway.com) 

Steve
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 31 December 2013, 00:15:21
Hi guys,  I have looked at the weight and will have about 12 on deck with others in the hanger, also the wings can be removed and the inside of the fuselage can be skimmed out to reduce the weight, also the wings.   I go 20 so that if I make any errors I have a few to play with.  Better safe then sorry.

I have looked at some of the other ideas and feel that with the mould kit that Joe used I might be able to mould some as these kits do break down into wings fuselage, prop and wheels.   There fore ideal for that work and the detail would be great as the hard work has been done.   But we will see the total weight of the  planes is less then the weight that will be in the hull to give stability.

Will take a look at at your mates build Steve and see what extra in ideas I can find.   Always use more info to assist in my build.   Have been looking at motors and ESC to see if brushless is the way to go too.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 31 December 2013, 09:28:39
Hi Paul, I came across these photos of Seafires folding wing configuration, you've probably already seen them but I thought I would post them in case they help, and don't forget about the A-frame arrestor hook, but knowing you, you have most likely thought of that. Joe.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: colin on 31 December 2013, 12:09:36
you could also make your own resin versions.... !!  8)

got my self a starter kit, arrived today.... (thanks for the link Joe)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 31 December 2013, 13:22:17
OK Colin, I hope you find it as fascinating as I do, it's quite amazing what you can do with a bit of imagination and an invaluable extention to our hobby. Joe.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 04 February 2014, 18:23:49
Well all the Spitfires arrived today, and looking at them it will be fun to cut the wings to folding position and fit the landing claw hook.   Had a good read of the Anatomy of ships for HMS Victorious, and see a lot of the drawing are in scales from 1/550,1/275,1/250,1/200 and as low as 1/15.   Need to find away to increase the scale to 1/96 for those above and to descale those below 1/96.   If I remember my maths correctly to convert small size to large size take the 1/550 divide by 1/96 and I should have the percentage to increase the magnification of the drawings.   i.e. 550/96 = 5.729%, can any one confirm if that is correct?
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: colin on 05 February 2014, 06:09:23
it might be easier to get some of these to chop up before you start cutting the ready built ones...!!

Deans Aircraft Kits (http://www.deansmarine.co.uk/shop/index.php/cPath/10_77)

ref. your maths, that's how i would have done it... now whether that's right, would be the next question  ::DD ::DD

Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 05 February 2014, 09:16:04
Hi Paul and welcome home,   now your talking about maths my brain just shut down, never was my strong point,  I just find out a size of the actual object in feet and convert it to 1/8"s  I can manage that That's why I like 1:96 .  Joe
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: cabin boy on 05 February 2014, 14:31:07
Hi Paul Joes maths spot on. If you have an actual scale model and not the actual full size measurements i.e. 1/550 then multiply by 550 thus producing life size  measurements. Then divide by 96 (1/8)
Cheers Clive
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: mikearace on 05 February 2014, 20:01:43
Paul

Have you seen this months Ships Monthly?

http://www.shipsmonthly.com/magazine/latest-issue (http://www.shipsmonthly.com/magazine/latest-issue)

It contains a 4/5 page article on Illustrious class carriers.  Not hugely in depth but another piece of research to add to your list that you might find useful.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 06 February 2014, 15:54:22
Yes Colin, will order one or two of the Spits from Deans, but they are Mk x, the air craft I have are Mk 1 and 2 which fit the era of the ship when built and before she was modified for the Pacific.   I am playing with glue and solder to see how the bond will take for the wings.  The Landing claw will drill very nicely into the frame of the plain.

Hi Mike no I do not have or see that magazine, looked at the web site and did not see anythink but will visit my local paper shop and see if they have a copy.  Saw the article on the Oz new Camberra class Helicopter ship L02, have see her in Williamstown and posted some photos of her  on my flicker account and have others on my hard drive if any one wants to see them.

There are scale drawings on the book on HMS Victorious and to be able to use them I will need to enclage them with a photo copier to the size of 1/96 so that I can then reproduce the item.  A lot of the items on this ship will have to be scratch built and as there is not  lot of photos of close up detail having to find all I can from scale plans.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 11 February 2014, 15:04:12
Well guys here is my first pro-to type of the seafire with folding wings.   I made a template of where to cut and drill for the wings to be supported, and then cut to see how it would go.  I have decided that the wings are thick enough to take 2 x 0.51mm wire  inserts to give more strength to hold the wings in position rather then bonding  as an additional support beside the two upright beams as per the real thing.  Some paint work will be required to cover the cuts and scratches.  Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 11 February 2014, 16:26:55
Hi Paul, Looks like a very nice job from here, As I understand it she carried some Swordfish, The old stringbag is one of my favourite old aircraft and of course payed a major part in the defeat of Bismark, will you have any on board. Joe
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 12 February 2014, 15:18:20
Yes Joe, will have a couple, will be getting them from Deans as I have not been able to find any 1/100 scale models so far.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 12 February 2014, 16:50:31
Yes know what you mean Paul, you can get most anything in 1:48 and 1:72 but hardly anything in 1:100 but the Deans stringbag looks OK. Joe.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 21 February 2014, 10:58:47
OK I have made a start on the model, have ordered my hull and should be ready next week.  But while copying the center isle plans for the 4 decks I found on C Deck a position called the "Conning Bridge" and I am at a lost as to what this is.   It looks like a walk way that could extend from the centre island, or it could be fixed with a walk way.   I have not been able to find any reference to this on the internet and what does turn up is a conning tower for subs, or a control bridge area on difference ships for navigation.   Can any one with Navy experience help.  Paul 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 21 February 2014, 11:47:32
Hi Paul,  The conning bridge or conning tower, means a place where the officer of the watch conducts or controls the operations of the vessle, hence the term, I have the con, or I am conducting operations, or I am in control, I believe the word con or conn comes from the word Conduct. Joe.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: mikearace on 21 February 2014, 20:25:30
Paul most of the pre war carriers including Furious, Glorious, Courageous and Hermes etc there was a conning 'bridge' for navigation that was like a cat walk that during flying and general sailing was closed up against the island but then was swung out from the island across to virtually the middle of the flight deck and was used for control when entering and leaving harbour and general navigating of the ship.  On the Furious classes it was essentially a canvas sided framed walkway type of arrangement.   Whilst I don't think the Illustrious and Implaccable sub classes had the same swing out arrangement I would guess that the Con that is referred to is the open nav con for navigating.   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 21 February 2014, 20:29:04
Thanks for that Mike the conning bridge does have a pivot point and would swing out.  Now I know what it is and dose will ensure it is on my model.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 26 February 2014, 17:32:16
Hull is now out of the mould and is ready for collection.  That should be with me next week Tuesday or Wednesday.  Have cut out the D deck for the center island and have made a start on the C deck.   I tried to scan the plans for D deck (see attached) and when I printed it off I found the scan had reduce the picture.   Do not under stand how or why, as I thought I was making a straight copy.  The Idea was to trace the out line with tracing paper and transpose the out line to the plastic card with a 0.4mm marker pen to give a nice fine out line.  Cut and then lay the cut out onto the scan picture with out having to revert to the plans all the time.  This did not work so had to do what I did not want to do.  But the result was OK.   As before I will put all my build pictures on to Flicker and post the link for you all to follow this saves space on the forum, but will post some photos on here for continuity.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 02 March 2014, 14:34:35
I have had a very close look at the bridge complex of HMS Illustrious and of her sister ship HMS Victorious and of the whole of the Illustrious class aircraft carriers. I have found the illustrious had a different B deck lay out to the others in her class.   The captains look out did not run all the way round the centre island and in fact stopped just at the front of the bridge area.   The entire photographs I have seen so far and the models have the front captains view platform all the way round.  This in fact is HMS Victorious and then HMS Formidable and Indomitable.  As there are very few actual photos which confirm the view if the captains bridge I will follow the drawings of the Navy and not what others have done.   I have managed to correctly ID the correct photos with the correct ship.   As I am trying to build an accurate copy of the ship up to 1942 when she resumed service after her repairs in the USA in May 1942
So once my supply of large sheets of plastic card arrives will be able to cut out B and A decks and start to put them together and form the centre island. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Horatio123 on 02 March 2014, 18:08:19
Hi Paul . Doing research like this is well worth while , I find it almost as much of a challenge a building the model . Look forward to your build , .
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 02 March 2014, 19:27:04
Hi Paul, yes I agree with David, you can't have too much information, but good photos that show details are hard to find, following with interest. Joe.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: mikearace on 03 March 2014, 20:41:22
Paul

In addition to the article in Ships magazine there is a special magazine out in WHS Smiths at the moment on British WWII carriers which includes some very good photos of all the Illustrious and Indefatigable Classes.  Think its 7.99 but packed with a lot of information and great pics.  Might be worth checking out.  Its SHips Illustrated WWII Aircraft Carriers.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 03 March 2014, 20:47:53
Thanks Mike will go to my local WHS and see if they have got it.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 04 March 2014, 11:00:31
Hi Mike, is this the mag you are on about as WHS in my area do not have it and say its a one time print and not due out until the 25 April.  But I see I can order this on like as a digital copy.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 04 March 2014, 18:18:45
Hi Paul, Don't know if you've seen this book, British aircraft carriers, design, development, and service histories, by David Hobbs, it was released in Nov 2013, available from www.amazon.co.uk (http://www.amazon.co.uk) .  Joe
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: mikearace on 04 March 2014, 19:48:41
that's the one Paul.  Its in my local WH Smiths right now. If your struggling to get one or get the digital copy I am happy to purchase one for you and post on if that's any use?
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 04 March 2014, 22:42:17
Thanks Mike, I'll get the digital one, also found that there are two mags called Warship Profile 10 and 11 which also deal with HMS Illustrious, have a digital copy of them too.

Joe I'll look into the British Aircraft carriers design and see what it has.  I do have the Rodger Chesneau Aircraft carriers of the world 1914 to present, this is an illustrated encyclopedia.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 05 March 2014, 13:32:34
Well the hull has arrived and will now study the hull in relation to the ship drawings and see what type of problems I am going to have and what other materials I will need.   Here are a few photos of the hull so you can all see the size of project I have taken on ( I wonder if its a step too far!)

I feel very confident in doing the work but I may need some new tools and wood.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Horatio123 on 05 March 2014, 17:03:22
Hi Paul .
 :smiley1: It will be quit a task , hull looks a nice job . Friend of mine in SWA is building her on a fleetscale hull  . Taking some time to do .
Look forward to watching your progress .
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 05 March 2014, 17:19:41
Impressive looking hull Paul, I can't see you getting bored in your retirement, a bit on the large side for me to get up and down two flights of stairs to my "dockyard", I am thinking of HMS HOOD for my next build but in 1:200 that keeps it around 4 foot, sadly this is not in Deans line up so will not be doing a build log. Joe.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 05 March 2014, 17:41:54
Yes I know the size is large, as my club chairman has the newer version R06 so have a good idea of the size.  Will be doing most of the large work in the summer when I can move the trailer tent out of the garage so that I can work on her.   But in the mean time I can prepare and cut the hull supports and do some of the smaller work and set thinks up for the summer periods.   It will be a long job and the cost needs to be controlled so have to create a build schedule for this one with goods arriving on a just in time build.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 08 March 2014, 18:08:53
Well that's all the spitfires completed for above and below deck with folding wings.  I found the work quieter difficult with having to drill each wing and body of the aircraft to allow the wings to be secure.  Some photos to show what was done.  I have to do some paint work on the under carrage and make some changes to the aircraft ID letter.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: mikearace on 09 March 2014, 15:42:47
Nice bit of patient work there Paul.  Will make an impressive sight on the flight deck when she is completed.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 March 2014, 16:38:46
Thanks Mike, Yes I have to agree with you and with the detail on them and the uncut aircraft she should look impressive.   The sword fish should also add to the ship.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 March 2014, 16:41:40
Have been working on the C deck at the moment and drawing in the walls and positions of doors and other items for the Admirals bridge, as this will be the only area visible through the windows the rest will be just support for the skin and main mast.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 09 March 2014, 19:19:31
Nice work Paul, they should look a treat in the hanger deck, one of the guys at the SWA show this weekend brought his Fleetscale carrier hull and deck being built as Victorious,  in the early stages with the superstructure just stood in place, I'll pop some photos up later. Joe.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 March 2014, 21:04:33
Thanks Joe all the photos you can get always help.  The fleet scale hull is 125 scale I think.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 10 March 2014, 13:59:22
They are 1:128 aprox 70 inces long, plenty of detail I think it was the semi kit as it had the moulded deck placed on top. Joe   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 10 March 2014, 22:53:52
Thanks for that Joe, could you email me the photo and any others if you have them so I can see a bit more detail.   You have My Email if not will sent it again in a PM.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: mikearace on 11 March 2014, 20:28:38
Okay not quite a photo but linked to your post in Joe's HMS Zulu blog, I don't know if you know, but you probably do, their is a 'family' of artists called Joseph and Edwin Galea from Malta who paint scenes from Malta including famous RN events.  I have three in my spare bedroom - The Ohio, HMS Hood leaving harbour in 1937 and the Illustrious being bombed when docked in 1941 following Operation Excess.  The signed prints do come up from time to time on ebay and in art and auction houses.  They are a little on the larger side but if you end up showing her a copy framed of Illustrious under attack would make a nice backdrop.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 11 March 2014, 20:45:27
Have to agree with you Mike.  The web site has some of the most beautiful photos of ship in service with the Med fleet.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 11 March 2014, 21:05:27
Well have stuck the bulkheads on to "C" Deck for the admirals bridge and placed all the other support walls to give the structure support when "D" deck is placed on top with the funnel.  I will need to prime the inside area before I put on the skin of the deck structure but would like to place a LED or SMD in the bridge area to illuminate the area.  Having difficulty in finding the correct size so that its not too bright. Also as the STB side has lamps too need to route the wiring. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: mikearace on 11 March 2014, 21:13:01
Paul

Excuse the glare and the poor resolution but I was getting glare from the glass framing but this is Galea's painting of Illustrious under attack that hangs in my bedroom.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 11 March 2014, 21:35:48
Nice Picture Mike will keep an eye out for others.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 12 March 2014, 07:03:24
I used SMD-LEDs on the Muirneag. If you glue them into a profile the light is not too bright. I made deck lamps out of plastic profiles and drilled holes in it for the SMDs. The result is very realistic.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 12 March 2014, 16:59:28
Have carried some of the work required on the "C" deck skin, cut windows and both sliding doors, while working on the doors decided to make them work so that they slide in and out. Pictures show the doors open then half closed.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Horatio123 on 12 March 2014, 18:10:15
Hi Paul .
       Nice work on the Seafires they look good with folded wings .  Watching your build with interest you look to have made a good start .
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 12 March 2014, 19:04:38
Nice going Paul, all those little touches make all the deference. Joe.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 13 March 2014, 11:11:38
Yes have done some work but finding new problems to solve and looking at ways to built the sections.   This is the first idea, but feel the outer skin of 0.5mm is a bit too thin.  So going to try making the C deck as a single unit which can then bond to the B deck just like the way the bridge was bonded to the upper deck on HMS Solebay.  The problem is the side skin,as I would like to use 1.00mm card.   As there are two very sharp folds at the rear and front of these decks I will need to find a way to fold that thick card to march the shell of the deck.   So going to make a template of the shape with an inner line 1.0mm from the outer edge of the origanal, place pins along the lines so that I can insert the card holding it in place and soak in hot water to try and keep its shape.  So this will take a while as I need a strong base to with stand the hot water.   Also if it works I can then keep the decks inside the skin and extend the shin to form the outer shell of the D deck all in one go.  This would give a much cleaner finish and smoother lines.   That would then work as a good template to do the same with A and B deck.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 13 March 2014, 17:26:07
Yes I know what you mean about bending, I used 1mm card on the forward foc'sle break on Zulu and wanted to curve each side to marry up with the hull sides to look like the real Zulu, I very carefully used a hair drier worked very well, I practiced on a bit of scrape first to how much heat was needed, just a thought, have you thought about using two pieces of .5 card laminated together on the bends.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: mikearace on 13 March 2014, 19:39:38
Paul

To add to joe's suggestion, when I built my MS Conserver the front had a very pronounced curve which was suggested would be easier to bend with a hair dryer.  I did try that and although it curved it wasn't as evenly curved as I wanted.  I then used .5 instead of the 1mm supplied and got the perfect bend and when it was bonded to the sides I then laminated again with another sheet of .5 so I got the right thickness but it was much easier getting the curved right. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: colin on 14 March 2014, 06:12:59
i have also used both methods... a good hairdryer, that will heat the hole area and keep i warm while bending works very well.
the doubling up of 0.5mm on very tight "S" bend curves like on my Inflexible also works very well as can be seen here (http://www.deansmarine.co.uk/index.php?topic=144.msg2241#msg2241) the superstructure below the funnel was made this way.
smaller strips of 0.5mm i warm and bend in my fingers... as can be seen here (http://www.deansmarine.co.uk/index.php?topic=144.msg992#msg992).
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 14 March 2014, 10:25:17
Hi Guys, have taken note of the suggestions and I had not thought of doubling up the 0.5mm card.  The hair dry I have is OK but I find the card does not bend easy and has twist in it and is uneven.  So I have cut out the two decks again and made templates, will then make a frame and then place in hot water then fold the 1.0 mm card around the frame and see how that works.  If it does then I will post the results.  Away for the week end the good lady requires that I take some time with her and visit family in the boards.  So a in-forced rest has been required the dock yard  is on strike!
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 19 March 2014, 14:13:58
Well I have looks at the plans again and at some build photos that Ron sent me and found that the D deck does not have front and rear wings on the same level as the deck to hold the 20" search lights front and rear, also the 10" single lamps.  The deck area which holds them actually drop down to mid level between the C deck and D deck.  I noticed this when I was looking at how height the 20" S/L would look.  So have cut a new D deck and working out how to cut in the four produding wings which hold these units.  I am now beginning to under stand how these plans work.  The thick broad lines means deck areas, the lighter lines show the route and the dotted lines the under floor route.

I have re cut the front skin and using both hot air and water got the front section to bend nicely and will now work on the rear section of the shin so that it all fits in place.  Now cutting the four winglets for the lights and will then gut the skin wall to insert them to create the correct look of these two decks. 

Will post build photos when the build is complete.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 19 March 2014, 16:23:51
All sounds very complicated Paul, not sure my old brain could cope with all that. but I'm sure you'll sort it out.  Joe
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 20 March 2014, 18:59:57
Well have now worked out how to cut out and attach the D deck to the C deck.   The first photo show how I had cut out the decks. The second and third photo show how the deck should be cut out allowing for the 20" and 10" signal lamps to be positioned at their correct height.
Once these small lower decks had been cut measured to a depth they where then cut out and fitted to the D deck.  Once the lamps are in stalled (ordered to day) I will be able to install step rungs and ladders as the plan requires.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 20 March 2014, 19:06:28
Have cut the and planed the front skin for the above deck and cut as required to allow the correct fitting.  Took a trace of the STB side of the bridge area and then stuck the trace to some plain card with some photo glue.  The plan was then cut out and gave me a very firm tenplate to mark in the front and rear sections of the bridge skin the actual heights of the D deck walls.  Also made the front pom pom detector housing which sits right at the nose of the bridge above the Admirals bridge. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 20 March 2014, 19:11:02
Today made a start on the funnel to fit on the top of D deck.   Started by making two tenplates of the funnel to used as a frame for the skin to be wrapped around and give me the form.  Also made a start on the funnel top with all the mesh wiring to be solder to form the grill.   I used the hair drier this time and with a very hot hand managed to get the 1.0mm card to fold around the tenplates I made and as the photo shows not a bad job.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 21 March 2014, 17:59:37
Well finished off the funnel only the position lights (4) to be installed and the siren along with piping and wiring of the lights when they arrive.  I have now started to bond the bridge skin to the decks and the front section is done but need to let it cure as there is quite a bend in the skin.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: mikearace on 21 March 2014, 20:25:48
Must be national make a good funnel week!  Very nice piece of work paul.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Horatio123 on 22 March 2014, 18:20:42
Nice bit of work Mike . Unusual shape to work on too !  ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 22 March 2014, 19:18:17
Hi David, its Paul not mike that's building this one and yes she does have some odd shapes to deal with and not every one is off center.  The center line is always slightly off.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 25 March 2014, 20:03:54
Well I have now completed the skin for C deck to D deck and fitted the four depressed wing bridges for the 20" and 10" signal lamps, the deck is not bonded yet as I am waiting for the interior LED lamps then I'll prime the Admirals bridge and paint the interior and then prime the exterior and then fit the window glass and seal ready for final coat of paint.  The hardest part was all the measurements to be cut for the sunken wing bridges so that I could meet the overall deck height.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: mikearace on 25 March 2014, 20:50:25
Cracking on well Paul.  It looks good already and will look even better with some paint.  Impressive work so far.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 25 March 2014, 22:38:26
Looking good Paul, some nice detail there already. Joe.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 28 March 2014, 14:27:44
I need a bit of help guys with identifying some detail on the following items of kit that are installed in the D Deck.   Can any one help with photos or locations of detail on the web for the following items.

1st  Tactical & Navigational range finder.  This is fitted to the front of the signal deck positioned on D Deck. (Picture 1)
2nd. There are four  S/L sights fitted two on each side D deck behind the the signal deck on D deck. (picture 2)

The give me the impression that they are very large range finder tubes to which sailor look into to range and navigate the way.

As these items will not be available in white metal will need to make them.  Any help given will help me make a fair Representative of the bit of kit.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: mikearace on 28 March 2014, 21:07:43
Paul

I could be wrong but Illustrious class had 4.5 qf twin turrets.  These would likely have used the same range finder as in later Emergency war Destroyers.  And from the  plan this is what it resembles - Deans do this in resin so you might be worth ringing Ron.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 29 March 2014, 14:00:09
Hi Paul,  from the drawing it looks like the same range finder that was fitted to many classes of ships of Illustrious's era, including cruisers, destroyers and even some mine sweepers and looks very close to the one fitted to Bramble, which as Mike said is available in resin, but should be fairly easy to make.  Joe
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 29 March 2014, 17:08:20
Hi  Joe and Mike,  Thanks for the info on the 1st picture, I think I can make that and if not I can always get one from Ron.  The other item on picture 2 has me really stumped.  I have no idea what S/L sights are.   Illustrious was fitted out with HACS Mk IV without 285 radar. (this was fitted in 1943/44) for the pom pom directors.   She was also fitted out with 8 x 4.5 inch guns controlled by HADT system which I am looking into.   So what would 4 S/L sights be doing on the top deck of the island.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 29 March 2014, 17:18:03
Well I did some hard reading into the HACS system which was fitted from about 1930's onward to the 1941 which is the era I am building in.  Got some clear photos of the system and the type of air flow defectors on ships of that type.   So had a go at making four of the HACS Mk IV with flat display panels.  Each of these units had about 4 to 6 sailors to man these thinks in very crampted area.  When primed and painted and some paint detail added they should look the part.  (you will see them in their enclosures later.)  Also completed the signal top deck, added two more sliding doors.   One or two port holes now need to be added.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 29 March 2014, 17:25:59
Once all the area's had been completed on D deck I'll then fit the air deflectors to the edges of all the areas that the plan shows them to be fitted.  I have placed them on the D deck and she is starting to look like a bridge section.   Once I have installed the interior lamps and painted the inside I will then bond the deck down and then complete the bridge wings with their shin and wind deflectors.  So she looks a little bit plain but will come alive when the primer has been applied.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 31 March 2014, 12:47:27
Here is a close view of the 4 S/L sights.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: ship's doctor on 31 March 2014, 18:08:20
Hi Paul,

Been having a look through my books to see if I can find a photo of one- nothing that looks like the drawing as yet though. I've used the ones from John Haynes for Suffolk- though they look a bit different to the ones in your drawing. 

The bridge is looking great- very quick progress!

James
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 08 April 2014, 11:39:29
I think I have resolved the problem on the S/L sight.  I think they are Searchlight sights and have found some drawings for them so will go with that.

Can any one point me to a place where I can identify Naval terms like A.D.O. and N.U.C lockers and others?
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 08 April 2014, 17:26:59
Hi Paul, It would be good if they put the full title in the plans we are not all ex navy bods, I came across these photos you may have already seen them but I hope they help. Joe
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: ship's doctor on 08 April 2014, 20:20:59
ADO could be air direction officer?- 'ALO' is Air look out'.  NUC is 'not under control' I think...
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 April 2014, 00:24:06
Thanks Joe for the photos, they are from the year 1943 to 1945 when she had her first refit in the USA after the Malta convoy.   The period I am building is 1940 to 1942.  You can tell if that is the correct period if the mast has the big drum cylinder above the HADT Mk IV director then you are in the period I am looking for.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 April 2014, 00:33:26
Hi James,  the NUC was actual given to lockers on the top bridge. (N.U.C. Lockers.)  I am sure this is some type of equipment as there are other lockers for Keys, Lights, etc.  So some guide would be usefull.

I have completed the conning bridge and fitted it to B deck and it will swing out to be held in the sea navigation position.  Also completed the inside of the Captains bridge and fitted it out with box's control panels, voice pipes,Binnacle and Compass.  Installed the LED lights to both bridges, so all I need to do now is prime these area and then paint with Naval grey and black and then bond the decks D to C and then that to B and A deck.  Port holes have been drilled and will fit them out with nice brass detail.   Will post photos later.  Made a start on the main mast.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Tanzy on 09 April 2014, 07:22:08
Not under command - lights and shapes to be displayed.

http://navruleshandbook.com/Rule27.html (http://navruleshandbook.com/Rule27.html)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 April 2014, 17:54:20
Here are some photos of the work so far.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 April 2014, 17:56:05
Here are some photos of the deck assembled.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 April 2014, 17:56:55
and some more
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 09 April 2014, 18:14:51
Hi Paul - looks great to me so far. Very unusual round forms of the superstructure I think but I am not into warships. I will meet up with Ron Dean tomorrow at the Dortmund fair Intermodellbau and look what he presents for us addicts :)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 09 April 2014, 21:20:36
A fine piece of work Paul, well done. Joe.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: mikearace on 09 April 2014, 22:02:11
Very nice Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 13 April 2014, 20:33:01
Well the last deck has been done and again the shape was not easy to obtain as the rear end of and lower half has a bow outwards to compensate for the funnel.  Have primed the inner decks and cut all the sliding door ways in the supperstructure.  Sill working on the mast and making sections to install once complete.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 19 April 2014, 12:26:28
Well I have done some sections of the mastand have put them together to see how they look on the top of D deck.   The bottom section of the main mast still has to be cut down by a few inches as she will sit low inside and rest on B deck to give support to the structure.   The main cross section which carries the signaling flags has still to be made with runners to be soldered to allow the flags to run up and down.  But on the whole I am very please with the result.  All the sections still have to be bonded and checked to ensure they are straight and perpendicular to the deck.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 19 April 2014, 12:30:22
On each of the landing of the mast I have used the two hole single stanchions from Deans range of etch parts.   They are very fine and required a lot of time to mount and then lace with wire to achieve the end result.   I still have the ladders and foot rungs to install.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: ship's doctor on 19 April 2014, 16:39:34
Hi Paul,

Looks really good- great fine detail on the mast. The radar looks very similar to the one on Suffolk (Type 279), there is a drawing here: http://www.hmshood.com/ship/radar.htm (http://www.hmshood.com/ship/radar.htm) which I found useful... 

Hope this is helpful,

James
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 20 April 2014, 19:13:11
Hi James you are correct, I do have the top sections to put onto the mast but they are so fine from an etch kit that I will not put them on till the end of the build as I am sure they will get damaged when painting or when the island is being removed and refitted to the main deck during build.  so will put them on them and will use a thinner mast stem for that fit.   The drawings will help as I was not sure how they would look when installed, and the plan I had was only giving me a side and straight on view.  Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 28 April 2014, 17:47:07
Well a futher update on my build.   Have now combined all four decks and have installed the main mast after some more work.   The main pillar of the mast is made from 3mm brass rod cut to length and then as there are ladders to be mounted I then in cased the rod with a 4mm plastic tube so that all will mount OK.  The two support legs remain in 3mm brass.   The main mast runs through the decks to get it support.   All the winglets have now been added and the the wind deflectors fitted to each,  that took awhile as the deflectors at the start off WW2 where sheets of metal extended out from the up wright so had to use 0.3mm sheet cut and trimmed to give a 1.5mm edge to all the area requiring air deflectors.  The only one of the bridge winglets was the main Captains bridge which had the wind deflects we see later in other builds.   I still have to fit some stanchion post (2hole) in the area of the funnel and the conning bridge.  I have maid up one of the 8 barrel Pom Pom and they look the part, also kitted out D deck with some of the items which will fill out the empty space.  I know have to order some more brass square rods from Ron to make up the deck which holds the landing lights and all the rafts.  So this will test my soldering.  Hope you like the photos, if you want to see them in grater detail you can go to my link for the flickr page to see.  Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 28 April 2014, 17:52:55
and some more.

And the link to my Flickr page if you want it.     https://www.flickr.com/photos/92998762@N02/sets/72157640833731444/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/92998762@N02/sets/72157640833731444/)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 28 April 2014, 19:37:58
Very nice Paul, I can see you have been busy, I do like the pom-pom wouldn't fancy being an enemy pilot with that thing spitting at you. Joe
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Fighting Sailor on 29 April 2014, 14:35:27
Looking fantastic so far Paul !   can't wait to see more...  I have a hull for an Independence class light carrier (I modified a Scale Shipyard cruiser hull)  which has been sitting empty for years.  You have inspired me to dust it off!  I plan to make USS San Jacinto CVL 31 which was the ship George Bush flew from.  But first I must build my Dean's Corvette... LOL   Keep up the great work!
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 29 April 2014, 22:46:04
Thanks very much for the kind words and I am please you have given some thought to building USS San Jacinto.   I like the idea of you modifying a hull, what work did you have to do as I have to do some work on the spooners on Illustrious.   Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Fighting Sailor on 30 April 2014, 14:54:33
Starting from a Light Cruiser hull, I had to build blisters on either side which essentially encreased the width.  I had good drawings but not much info below the waterline.  I suplimented the missing views with drydock photos of USS Independence.  I roughed out the basic shape in Balsa wood and laid fiberglass over. once the glass had cured the balsa was dug out and the void filled with resin and glass matt. 1/4 inch holes were drilled in the hull to allow me to pull a bit of the matt and resin into the hull and therefore form a good mechanical bond.  I have used this technique in the past for constructing sponsons etc...  I will try to post pics later.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 01 May 2014, 18:42:32
I am hoping that someone may be able to help me in my scratch build of HMS Illustrious 87 from the period 1939 to 1942.   I have the full Naval plans of the ship and I am in the build of the Island A to D decks. 
The problem I have at the moment is the mounting of the Carley floats on the side of the island from B deck down to the flight deck.
I have the sections plans for section 92 through to 69 which covers the area of the Carley floats, also the side profile.   I am not able to see clearly how they were mounted as there are two platforms shown but one is not on the section 69 and not on 92.  There is also a walk way above the mounting platform which has a grating and stanchions to give access to the flight signal lamps positioned along this walk way which is above the Carley mounts.   There is also retaining reels for each float position below the mounting deck on all the decks shown, but not sure how they are reached and how they retain the floats.
My question is can any one help with old photos of the area of the ship as all the photos I have are distance shots which are too grainy to blow up to see detail.  Or has any one seen or served on this ship during the period I am building (a long shot I know) or any other ship which had this type of launch system for high up Carley floats. 

As the plans hare too high to be posted here if you go to my build link view the plan layout of the Carley floats from the cut sections and then from the side on and the over view please give me my your view.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/92998762@N02/sets/72157640833731444/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/92998762@N02/sets/72157640833731444/)
For the attention of Ron on the first and second plans view you will see the the dotted area I was talking about.  DO you think this is a shadow view of the support arms that are in the last drawing of the over head view.

Thanks for any help in this matter.  Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 03 May 2014, 23:54:05
Well Guys I have found out how the Carley floats are mounted and launched.   The small deck that juts out from B deck has 7 rods protruding out which holds the main cable which holds the Carley floats in place.  As you will see from the small attachment this cable make a upside down Y which hold and runs to the back of the Carley floats and is retained under the small deck in reels, which must be braked.   The next deck down is were the crew go to release the floats.   As they are lowered the upside down Y hold the Carly float in position until they reach the sea and are then released.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 04 May 2014, 12:34:28
So have made and drawn the layout of the top deck and its walk way and taken the measurements from the plans.  Will now cut out this deck and trim to install to the side of the Island, also install the signal lights and two post stanchions with copper line for the hand holds.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: ship's doctor on 04 May 2014, 13:54:59
Looking very good Paul- glad you got the Carley Float problem solved.

I found this collection of images of Illustrious if you've not seen them...

http://www.maritimequest.com/warship_directory/great_britain/pages/aircraft_carriers/hms_illustrious_87.htm (http://www.maritimequest.com/warship_directory/great_britain/pages/aircraft_carriers/hms_illustrious_87.htm)

There are a few others with pages on the site (Formidable, Victorious)

James
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 04 May 2014, 15:41:43
Yes James,  I have that link saved to help in the build, but what I really needed was a close up of the Island to see how the 3d vision I had drawn would work.  Once I have received the reels from Deans and have fitted them in place the next deck will be completed and then the Carley floats the whole thing will look as it should.

There is so much in extras for this model that makes it fun but expensive to build.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: ship's doctor on 12 May 2014, 18:37:32
Hi Paul,

Going back to your question about the searchlight sights- you seem to have this solved, but I found the following blog really useful, lots of detail shots of RN bridge equipment including the searchlight sights. It disappeared for a while but now seems to be back online. 

http://ontheslipway.com/?p=1647 (http://ontheslipway.com/?p=1647)

James
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 13 May 2014, 20:28:38
Thanks for the link James, it is very useful as it gives me detail on other parts of the ship which I have not yet started on.  Thank you very much indeed.  The guy who is building HMS Hood did get a lot of detail photos, I wonder where he got them from.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 13 May 2014, 20:41:31
Have been working on the second Carley float deck which is used for the crew to access the positions for each group of floats.  Also received the retaining reels from Deans.  They are very small, 3mm high and 4.5mm wide.  All had to be solders and now ready to fit in place.  Once installed under the top deck will take photos of the layout.  I am trying to find some 1.5mm tape/cloth which would look like the retaining strapping for the floats.  So a trip down to the local Arts & Crafts shop to see what I can find.  The hardest part will be the deck supports which extend from the main deck to the the second deck floor to support it.  These actual sit on the screen for the walk way round the Island on the Starboard side.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 15 May 2014, 12:48:21
Here are some photos of the work done in the post above.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 16 May 2014, 12:40:08
Have received the 72 single lamps from Deans today, have to put the first bank of 36 in groups of 12 to each support plate for the island.  That will be fun as they are staggered (one up and then the next down and so on) as this photos shows.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 26 May 2014, 14:22:24
Managed to get some roofing lead, which is nice and thin and can be moulded to the hull and placed all along the keel and will need to be cut into strip lengths.  I will have to find a way to work out how much I need to place each side of the support beam so that the weight is evenly spread along the keel so that its not to heavy at the bow or stern and still keep a fare weight in the center and to one side to compensate for the Island.   Was speaking to Ron and he told me that he had two large car batteries in the test run model they built back in the 80's that is some weight?   Any one got any ideas on how to work it out?
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 26 May 2014, 14:38:27
Here is the photo of the 1st bank of aircraft signal lamps installed.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 26 May 2014, 15:08:38
Hi Paul,

the idea with the car batteries sounds good to me. You will have to find a way to get everything to the pond so the weight should be removable. Will those lamps be illuminated?

Kind regards - Arno
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 28 May 2014, 00:39:30
I know that weight has to be set so that the ship will have a set position and balance in the water, then the final removable weight is added to give it the final balance which can be fixed to certain places in the hull the same each time.  This would not then up set the basic balance.   

No Arno these lights will not illuminate, but do have some nice ones for the position lamps on the funnel four in total.

Paul :)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 28 May 2014, 11:03:47
Managed to get some roofing lead, which is nice and thin and can be moulded to the hull and placed all along the keel and will need to be cut


Hi Paul,  I hope the local church roof doesn't leak too much,  ;D  Judging by the weight of the 4 footers that is going to be heavy boat, should help keep you fit taking her for a sail  :o
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 28 May 2014, 12:44:02
No Joe, have note been near the local or distance church's.  Have a son in the building trade and he gets me all the waste lead that the roofs do not use, so very handy to place right down at the keel.   Then I have some divers weights that I used to use on my weight belt to keep me down when diving.  As I do not need them any more these should be a good removable balance weight for her.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 02 June 2014, 16:15:58
Have now completed the the second bank of signal lamps a total of 24.  They are now ready to be mounted and then trunking put in to show the cable route of the electrics.

Got so much lead now that I will be able to weight her down once the hull beams have been cut and fitted inside the hull.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 June 2014, 14:07:41
Well another bit of the build has now been completed and that is the rudder, part one.  As the photo show the main blade can be removed from the 5mm main shaft.  It is held in place by two small grub screws.   The main shaft is 5mm brass and passed through a 8mm tube which is held in place by the camfer shaped wood mounting plate inside the hull.  The shaft will be filled with Vaseline to ensure no water passes up the tube and is sealed with the clear seal grommet at the top and will be held in place by the rudder control arm.   The top of the tube is above the water line too as an added safety precaution.   The 5 mm main tube passes through a shaped wood section to show the contour of the hull and then into the retaining tube soldered to the rudder blade.  The shaft then passes through the wood reinforced with two small tin plate rings and then into a brass pivot which is secured to the bottom of the wood shape section.  Once bonded and in place the wood section will be fibre glassed in place to give a strong pivot point also the inside tube will also have support brasses to give added strength.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 June 2014, 14:10:19
The next set of photos show the position in the hull and the drilled point in relation to the center line and the semi mounting of the rudder.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 June 2014, 14:12:36
Now working out the position of the three motors so that I can work out the location of the mounting plates to be made of wood and the units screwed to these.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 09 June 2014, 19:33:32
Hi Paul, some nice work there, what size are those motors they look around 500s, I got two 545s for my Coventry and although they will fit in quite easily I think they may be a bit of an overkill, I'm at a SWA show this weekend I'll ask the chaps advise  :)  Joe.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 June 2014, 20:32:43
The motors were taken from striped down power supply pumps for the air supply to operate the central locking and other vacuum supply to a Mercedes-Benz SL.  They have a free running current of 1.1amp (1100ma) have an RPM of 5600 and the stall current 10 amp +.
They are very quieter and have a good low down torque, to drive this size boat with three 50mm propellers.   I should get a good scale Representative speed to size.

I have loads of smaller motors from door mirrors and washer pumps to drive other items on the boat, so do not have to buy any.  The smaller motor have less then 0.1a (100ma) and RPM from 10000 to 8000 so will need to gear them down.

Paul.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 09 June 2014, 20:51:55
Mercedes-Benz motors eh, better than the real Lusty  ;D ::DD ;D  Joe.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 07 July 2014, 11:44:43
Well had a wee break and took the good lady wife on holiday to the south and while there went to the Fleet Air Museum to take some photos of HMS Indomitable.   The scale is 1/48 so she had a lot of detail that I needed to see and use to continue with the build of my own ship.   The photos have been taken through glass and in very poor light so if you want to view them they are on my Flicker account the link is below.   The model was build by the builders yard and is on loan to the Fleet Air museum.   So I was thinking would there have been a model made of the other three sister ships.  Will need to look around and speak with the ship yard museum.   I hope you like and you should be able to compare my build with the model.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/92998762@N02/sets/72157645556911264/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/92998762@N02/sets/72157645556911264/)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 07 July 2014, 11:57:59
I am working on the center prop layout with the added keel to create the same look as the original ship.   So the work started with a large bit of wood and then has to be cut down to fit over the hull moulded section and shaped to suit.   Once done it, the wood will be sealed with fiber glass and then secured using epoxy glue and copper location pins.  Then P38 used to fill and shape, before priming.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 07 July 2014, 16:38:08
Your doing some real nice work there Paul, I can see you are gaining in skill all the time, well done mate, ^^^ :) :)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: ship's doctor on 07 July 2014, 20:59:04
Very neat work Paul! Thank you for posting the great photos of the Indomitable builder's model- really useful to see pictures of the cranes/boats for my build too!
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 08 July 2014, 10:27:28
Thanks Joe, I am really trying to make this model a nice build and with detail.  Paul :)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 08 July 2014, 10:29:35
Hi James,  I am glad the photos are helping others and you, as there is a lot of detail in this area you never get to see on the older ships unless you have the photos. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 11 July 2014, 12:20:16
Here are some more photos of the under water line near completions and about to be sealed before bonding to the hull.  Then the use of P38 filler to fill in and rub down to the hull lines.   It took a while to shape the lower keel and then using screwed rod (1.90mm thick) was then using a (1.6mm) hole drilled into the base and then the rod screwed in to ensure a secure fit. Once the P38 has dried the hard work of rubbing down to get a smooth finish.  Not looking forward to that. :(
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: mikearace on 11 July 2014, 20:11:38
Nice neat bit of work Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: John on 20 July 2014, 21:49:40
Hi Paul, nice work with the entire build so far. I have been watching and learning, especially how you worked out the details for the 0.5mm card. Very nice job.

John.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 21 July 2014, 12:41:46
Thanks for the kind words Mike and John.  I hope the photos give the work Justis  as I hope the information will help others as I have been helped.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 29 July 2014, 20:14:04
Well after all the advice I have been given on how to work out the best way to make templates for hull support plates have done the first cut and filed and sanded then into the hull.  So will now take a bit of time to meassure the distance of all the beams as the plan does not show them all due to the flight deck being a flat bed and has different angles.  Once this is done will then mark the position of the motors and were the propshafts go through each of the cross beams.  Have the center prop done which is 15 inches long, but the two outer are a total of 21 inches long with 6 inches of open shaft.   Also as the rear quarter deck need to be positioned as well I am cutting the deck openings too so that I can work out were to cut the inspection and if required repair hatch for the rudder and its connections as this will be below this deck.  Must be able to reach this as it will be below two decks.  Will post photos as soon as I have taken them all.  Then will have to cut out the center of each hull support beam to match all the lower deck openings and take the flight deck support beams across and along the whole hull length.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 30 July 2014, 23:19:55
This is the cutting out of the quarter deck openings.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: mikearace on 31 July 2014, 18:56:23
Theres a lot of cutting there Paul.  Glad you got the patience.  But looking good anyone.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: colin on 01 August 2014, 06:28:50
those bulkheads look Ok to me Paul,  ^^^ ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 01 August 2014, 11:26:58
No I have the time Mike and an nice saw to help with the work.   

The bulkheads still need a bit more work Colin to smooth out the kinks in the hull and fit much tighter so out with the sander till I get them to fit.  The first step is to do the stern quarter deck (at hanger deck level) bulk head along with the deck so that I can work out and cut the access to the rudder for the servo and to repair from the top as the rudder will more or less be totally enclosed in this space.  I have been looking at a magnet type rudder arm system to that I can release the rudder quickly with out having to have all these cut outs in the quarter deck and the upper gallery deck.  Any one seen some examples?
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 01 August 2014, 18:13:26
Here are the photos of the stern bulkhead and quarter deck tacked in place.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 01 August 2014, 19:33:25
  I have been looking at a magnet type rudder arm system to that I can release the rudder quickly with out having to have all these cut outs in the quarter deck and the upper gallery deck.  Any one seen some examples?

Hi Paul
Good job so far, a magnetic tiller arm ?, not something I would want to rely on in the middle of the lake, if it became detached for any reason you would loose all control, I usually don't bother with hatches for mine, as long as they are assembled with tread lock on all parts they should be maintenance free, at least that's what I've been doing for years and never had any issues.
Joe.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 02 August 2014, 13:20:02
I agree with Joe. I use power magnets for attaching figures and hatches but never would use them for a tiller arm. Safety first :)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 02 August 2014, 14:04:18
Have a look at this link and give me your views, as it seems to work with this guy.

http://www.wmunderway.8m.com/cont/rudder/rudder.htm (http://www.wmunderway.8m.com/cont/rudder/rudder.htm)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 02 August 2014, 19:34:59
Hi Paul
Not sure I see any advantage to being able to pull the rudder out, IMO if any thing is going to go wrong it's likely to be the tiller arms and linkages which the guy has built in as he didn't want any hatches,  :o

Joe.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 03 August 2014, 20:00:22
Hi Paul,
I would remain on the safe side i.e. no magnets. I would not want to risk loosing a build which took such a lot of time and effort (and money).
Arno
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 05 August 2014, 15:14:47
Well after some thought I have gone with the fixed rudder control arm and have marked out the position of the access hatch.   Nearly all the bulkheads have been installed and cut to suit the hull, just one or two more to do and then ready to mark out the position of the outer prop shafts and then drilled their location holes in the bulkheads, after which I can then secure them in the hull.  The quarter deck has now been marked out for planking and just waiting for the material to arrive and will start to plank the quarter deck, as this will take time. Photos to follow.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 11 August 2014, 15:08:34
As I was doing a shift at a model boat display for my local club I took HMS Illustrious to the display so that any new budding builders and the general public could see what was involved with building model boats be it kit form or scratch from plans.

While I was there I sat a  small table and did some planking work to the quarter deck and also let visitors watch what was being done.  So I enclose the photos of the work  I did and the tools I used to plank the quarter deck.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 11 August 2014, 15:10:14
I made up a small temp plate  using a waste bit of ply.  Cut some section of oak wood with a nice clean sharp straight edges and made a grooved "T"  to old the planking strips in place to allow me to cut the same lengths with straight edges to butt up against one another, every time.   Also a razor blade holder to ensure a sharp clean cut every time.   Craft knife is not a good cut as it is too thick.  Then using straight edge laid each plank as per the 3 butt plan down the centre of the deck then changed to a 2 butt plank system for the outer edges of the deck.  To ensure a cock line could be seen I used a HB2 pencil to make the leading edge of each plank to give the out line of the edge and the cork fill.  You can use cotton which can be purchased to give the same impression, but as my deck was not going to be visible from straight on view, I used this method.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 11 August 2014, 15:12:08
Once all the planks ad been laid I trimmed off the surplus sections of planking and rubbed down with a sanding block, using very fine sand paper.   The surface was then also sanded down to smooth out any ruff areas of wood and glue.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 11 August 2014, 15:13:44
Then using a 0.5mm drill held in a hand holder I drilled out the impression of the retaining floor rivets for each plan butt and then using a very sharp pointer HB pencil marked each rivet.

The deck is then again a light sanding and the deck is then ready to be oiled to seal and ensure the wood grain is shown.   Do not use a brush, use a cloth and only lightly  rub the surface, allow to dry and do again.

I ready enjoyed this work and when all the items require to fit out the quarter deck and lighting is fitted it will I am sure look very impressive.

During the two days I was at the show I had lots of enquires on how to start the hobby and did point then to Deans Marine for the range of boats which would well suit a starter and off course local clubs.     
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 11 August 2014, 15:16:13
If you want to view any of the build photos in greater detail then please view them on my Flicker ling below.

https://secure.flickr.com/photos/92998762@N02/sets/72157640833731444/
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 11 August 2014, 15:40:26
Nice going Paul, keep up the good work,  ^^^ :)
Joe
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 12 August 2014, 17:19:30
Thanks Joe, praise indeed.  I did enjoy that bit of work.  Just the detail to do later when more of the main hull has been completed.  I am now working on the position of the two outer proshafts positions and then installing the A frames.  They have very long legs as I could not tell how low down the prop would be until the centre prop was installed. I am trying to work out how to fit them and then mark the area to cut off before fixing in place.  ::DD
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 20 August 2014, 12:57:30
Well lets give you an up date on my build.  I started by looking at the plans for the hull and checked the hull for size and as we all know the hulls have to be squared off and the edges rubbed down to a height.  Well I hit my first problem the hull is not the correct height for me to make all the decks fall in place.   She is 7 8th too short that makes it  7 feet in real terms height and that's a deck level.   Therefor had to look at all the deck levels and water line using my tool for drawing these lines on the hull.   That meant all the deck and markings on the hull had to be redone.  I also found the markings on the port side of the hull were in the wrong place and the position of the boat crane and its opening where positioned to far forward.   These where adjusted to match up with the openings on the starboard side.

As a result of this the bulkheads made will now have to be lowered due to the change in the ships height.

Once this was all worked out I then using masking tape lined off and marked off the areas to be cut out.  During the cutting I check each opening to ensure is was level with the others and the deck line.  So Hopefully she will look OK.

I am also looking into building my own hull using the ship lines plan and the bulkhead plan to build an accurate  hull.    Ron has offered to make me a hull from the frame.  So if I go ahead with this project I will use it as a training exercise and Ron can then keep this to make hulls for other customers if it is good enough to use.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 21 August 2014, 21:23:18
I have given the hull a rest as I feel all I can see is hole's, so I have started to make up some of the small components for the decks when they are installed.   The quarter deck has wash lockers fitted to I thought I would make my own.  Here are some photos of the ones I have made so far and I have set up a production line to make more.  If any one wants to know the measurements I have broken them down for each component.

The top cover is 18.5mm long and 7mm wide.  Cut from 0.5 card.
The two side legs are 8mm long and 7mm wide. Cut from 1mm card
The centre section is made up from oblong squares stuck together to make a body 16mm long and 7mm wide.
The centre leg is 1.5mm deep by 7mm wide.  Cut from 1.mm card.
The wash holes are drilled by a 0.75 drill on a line drawn 2mm down from the top and every hole is drilled at 2mm intervals.
The wash holes on each end are drilled 2mm from the out side edge  forming a line from the same holes on the front.
The top cover hinges x3 have been cut from flat sections 0.65mm along with the hinge backs cut from the same materials 1.5mm long.
The front lock has been cut from a flat section strip 0.75mm 1.5mm long.

(an assortment of flat strips all different sizes can be purchased from the Deans Shop. Very useful for the small detail stuff)
 
I started with the main body and cut the square to 16mm lengths. Rub down with 120 sand paper to give a flat surface for the two sections to be bonded together and then squared off to give a flush match to the side legs, the final size will be 6.5mm deep x 7mm wide and 16mm long. (note the square oblong section have counter sunk sides so you need to rub down or you will not have flat surface to bond.) Once bonded rub down to give smooth surfaces all round.

Cut the two end legs from 1mm card 8mm x 7mm and the centre leg 1.5mm x 7mm wide.

Bond the two end legs to the main body of the locker body.  Once bonded rub down to give smooth edges to the whole unit.
Draw a light pencil line 1mm from the top all the way round. On the front mark off every 2mm from the ends to the middle along the line for the wash holes to be drilled through with a 0.75 drill. Do the same for the end sections again make the holes 2mm from each end and the centre.  Drill the holes for the front and then the sides. ( the sides just need to be drilled to show the size of the hole no need to drill all the way through.)

Bond the top cover to the main body and ensure there is a small lip(over hang) all the way round except for the rear( should be just able to put your craft knife blade point on the very edge  all the way round and no more.) 

The rest is straight forward mark the top cover hinges evenly across the top and down the back for the top hinge using your 0.65 flat strip. The back of the hinge should only drop down 1.5mm.  The length of the hinge on the top should only be 3mm max.

The lock clasp is just 1.5mm long cut from your 0.75 flat section.

Once done prime and paint.  Hope you find this useful.
 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 15 September 2014, 13:03:55
Some more work done on the hull till I get my ship lines plan from the NMM.  I have now made the cable deck and lined it with wood panels and placed fit in the bow of the hull, will now make the items which fit on this area.  4x 3 pdr saluting guns, two Clump catheads, three 18 inch bollards, cable reels some deck wash lockers.  Then fit the three cable/anchor chain holders along with their fitments, some fairleads.  the would deck with be finished in a would polish to seal it from the water, and when bonded in sealed so no water gets into the bow or inside of the hull.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 15 September 2014, 13:20:28
Have also made the hanger deck platforms on both port and starboard side aft of the front spoons.  Each deck has been lined again with wood deck and the sections marked off for each of the compartments in this area of the ship.   The floor was made first so that it fits and is supported by the front two hull cross sections. The upper deck and side structures are made to be attached later so that I can install all the Air vents and work shop space and cables and cabinets are fitted and then I can prime and paint without marking the deck.  Once glued I can then installed the bollards, fairleads deck hatches and MKVII Paravane, 3 tone winches and ladders. The upper deck openings will also be lined with wood as per the hanger deck openings.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 16 September 2014, 21:07:07
Here are some more pictures with detail added, as they were hand made from the original and inserted.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: colin on 17 September 2014, 09:27:14
some nice Detail your adding there Paul..  ^^^ Keep em coming..  :)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 17 September 2014, 17:33:02
Thanks Colin,

Just to keep the follow I have some W/T doors to do so thought I try making a few for my self to install in areas where the quality will not be to obvious
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: mikearace on 17 September 2014, 19:23:01
Very meticulous Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 18 September 2014, 10:56:28
Hi Paul
On holiday at present, trying to keep in touch with a not too good connection, nice attention to the detailing there, a lot of fiddly work on w/t doors, just wondered why you didn't make one and used resin moulding to make as many as you need ::DD
Nice work though mate
Joe.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 19 September 2014, 17:14:40
Hi Joe, hope the holiday is going well.  I thought I would try my hand at making my own parts for the items that are in the lower decks and would see how they came out.   I have not as yet invested in the mould kit until I see how the ship lines turn out.

As I type the plans from NMM have arrived and they are great.   They show the full side profile and the under side profile along with front and rear lines for the bulkheads.   So went down to my friend who has CorelDraw X6 and he scanned the front and rear ship lines into this programme and then made me card sections a total of 50 in total and flip the missing side over so that I have the completed view of each bulkhead.   So now all I have to do is make up a building board and drawing planing board and then start to make my own ship hull.   So I have something to do in the winter and have to take my time to ensure I get a good hull to match the work I have already done.  If it turns out OK I will have two ships one for display and one to play.   I also have the files of the plans so can print more off as required.   Just need to go to Glasgow to get the main plans copy for a working set.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 19 September 2014, 17:19:25
Hi Mike,  Thanks for your comments, the are OK but I think I can do better.   The ones I made was drilled and then cut out with craft knife,  and then filed to get the shape, but not always equal.  So will try another metheard using a grinding tool from the dremel kit and see how that turns out on the next batch.  But I will try the mould kit once I have completed the hull.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: mikearace on 19 September 2014, 22:27:58
Methinks you do yourself a disservice!
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 21 September 2014, 19:26:46
Thanks Mike,  I try to improve each time I do something.  I have just done another few door frames and they have come out much better more even and they will look OK.   Yes the time to make them is quiet long but the pleasure in doing so can not be match with the knowledge that all the components on the ship you personally made make it just that bit better.  Will post pictures of the new cut outs later.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 22 September 2014, 12:37:41
Ship lines now on CAD file and have had them printed out for each one of the hull ribs all I have to do now is get my building board built and make the frame for them to fit on.   Have to read up on how the bow and stern are made and fitted to the keel.  Any pointers anyone? Would like some tips in this area, as the bow is very thin compared to the beam of the keel which will be about 6 mm thick or more.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 22 September 2014, 14:33:02
The final run of the set of deck doors from start to finish.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 22 September 2014, 19:28:10
Hi Paul,

those parts really look very neat ^^^ ^^^ Well done :) Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 22 September 2014, 19:31:18
Hi Arno,

Thanks for those kind words, yes I have to agree they second batch is a lot neater and will do very nicely thank you, for the lower decks.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 28 September 2014, 00:12:16
Update on the hull build, so far.  The main ship lines have been printed off on 1/8 thick card and each section(bulkhead) has been very carefully cut out and marked.  It took me about one week of cutting them out with a very Sharp scalpel and then marked ready to be drawn on to the ply wood.
So I have ordered the ply sheets and will then mark them out.   I also had an idea that I could with the use of the CAD drawings get them Laser cut, so have also spoken with a company in Glasgow to see if that is an option without out it being too expensive, as the cost of materials would be about 30.00 pounds with a lot of waist at the end.   With Laser cut I will get very accurate sections cut from the CAD drawing.  Will keep you posted on that idea.

Have to make my building board this week and mark it out ready for the keel to be laid.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 04 October 2014, 17:17:57
I have now built the hull building board and have marked up the main center line and the position of all the bulkheads with the Forward and Aft points.  Noted the position of the end of keel and the prop and rudders.  Made my support frame blocks and now ready to make the hull keel and bowand stern sections.

I have spoken with Ron and he has advised that the bow and the stern be cut from a product called Pattern Making Foam.  This will enable me to create these area as the wood planking will be hard to bent to meet these curves.  So will look out for a supplier of said item.  I am now working on the bulkheads being laser cut to the size I want and then matched to my cut out sections to correctness.  Then I have to find a supplier of wood cut to the size, length and thickness I need to plank her.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 04 October 2014, 18:42:10
Your lusty has turned into a mammoth project, should keep you busy for a considerable time, at least you won't get bored in retirement, I got a really good smoke unit for my tug, works very well, wired to the ESC you get proportionate smoke at full throttle it really belches out, could only test it briefly in the workshop it would have filled the room in minutes  ::DD
Joe.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 04 October 2014, 19:28:27
Hi Joe,  I am sure that it will not take long to do the basic work but the planking on this size of hull will be the bit that is going to take the time and also space for this work is a bit limited for me so am working on a solution.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 04 October 2014, 21:31:10
I think I can see an extension to a workshop coming before long  ::DD ::DD ;D ;D
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 05 October 2014, 00:01:00
No i think the trailer tent will get an outside storeage cover and be parked out side. :grin1:
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: ship's doctor on 06 October 2014, 12:45:45
Hi Paul,

I ordered the wood for deck planking from SLEC - they did a custom order, the quality was good and the price was OK. I think you can get them to quote for a custom order. They also have lots of other standard sizes of strip wood in their range.

There is a company called easy composites which sells pattern making foam in various grades, I was thinking of experimenting with some to do patterns for ship's boats for Suffolk, but it's very expensive!

Hope this helps,

James

 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 October 2014, 21:06:43
Hi James,
thanks for the info and will see what SLEC have to say, as I think I will use Obechi for the planking and I have to make up my mind if I want to double plank with 1.8mm or single blank with 3mm.  The building board are out on that one so far.

I have come across Easy Composites and for a 30x30x10cm block it ?16.00 pounds plus carrage.  I can just about do the stern and the bow with that but will work on it.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 October 2014, 21:12:31
Well to keep the build moving along with the GRP hull I have just about complete all the bulkheads and there is one more to do and I am ready to tack in place be fore bonding.  I have managed to square up the hull and marked off the inserts for all the decks along the hanger deck.  Also made the front and rear section of the flight deck.  Next will be the location and fitting of the two outer shafts to match the center one.  Here are some more photos.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 October 2014, 21:18:16
As for the new hull build I have now finished off the main frame and laid the keel and is held in place.  Notice the extra thickness of the stern section in the area of the rudder and center prop, have made it nice and wide so that the shaft for the center prop and rudder which is 5mm has a good foundation and strong mounting point.

I am now going to work on the bulkheads but need to make up my mind what thickness I an going to use to plank her.  it will be either 3mm single plank or 1.8mm double plank. Once I have made up my mind the bulkheads will be cut less the thickness of the planks.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 14 October 2014, 17:38:41
While I wait for the wood to arrive I have started on the items required for the cable deck that I think I can make, so made two of the four 3 pounder saluting guns on the port side of the deck.  As they are the old style Mk 1c (HA) I used the plans and photos from the NMM plans and the Anatomy of ships and drawings from Mr Lambert and others from the web.   As they are so small in 1/96 scale I have taken the 1/50 scale and build from there.  They are not perfact but do look the part.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 15 October 2014, 08:47:03
You could have purchased 3D printed 3 pounders in 1/96 from shapeways
https://www.shapeways.com/model/2743436/3-pounder-x-4-1-96.html?li=user-profile&materialId=61 (https://www.shapeways.com/model/2743436/3-pounder-x-4-1-96.html?li=user-profile&materialId=61)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 15 October 2014, 13:25:14
Hi Pauline,
yes you are correct I still have that, but as these items are tucked away in the deck of the ship this size plus the cost to fit out the whole ship with nice detail add on's would set me back about 500-600 pounds and I would like the high detail to be on the flight deck and the side decks which will be in plain view of the the person looking at the ship.    There is also the opportunity to make my own moulds which Joe has done so will do that as well.   When I costed this project with all the quality high spec additional items I was into over 1200 pounds plus so need to be realistic in what I can and can not do. Also the fun in the practice of using our minds and having a go using the left overs from bits of card and tubing is fun and test our skill in making some of these parts.  Once they are painted and fitted along with the other cable deck items viewed from the side they should look the part.  Well I hope so still have to prime and paint to see how they look.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 15 October 2014, 14:28:59
It's also a devil that as you get older and have more time for this sort of thing, the eyesight
starts to get worse and the detailing becomes more difficult. Something similar to Youth is wasted on the young !
I also make my own moulds and cast my own ventilation trunks, funnels and type 271 radars. plus ships crests in miniature
to place inside the display case.
I take it you have a " low loader" to transport that monster when it is completed ?
I'm just running the W/T lines on the castle class, so it should be finished next week.
Just a small interuption of a Trafalgar dinner on HMS Belfast on Saturday.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 15 October 2014, 17:21:17
Yes you could say that the eyesight dose need to be OK.  I can fit the monster into the car when all seats on one side are folded down. Will make a case to transport it, when I go out.  The first test will be when she is tested for balance and that the motors run.

Yes I did enjoy my visit to HMS Belfast when in London, she is a great ship and enjoyed my tour.  I used to see HMS Blake, Tiger and Lion when I was in Malta GC along with the Destroyer flotillas.

Hope you enjoy your dinner, as I know I would, when I go to Mess dinners. Watching your build with interest.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: rsm on 28 October 2014, 09:19:00
Hi Paul,
I have 4 of the three pounder saluting guns, of the type you are making, by John Haynes going spare. They are  excellent and just require assembly. Drop me a pm with your address  if you want them and I'll post them on.
Regards,
Roger.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 28 October 2014, 10:06:59
Hi Rodger, PM sent.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 28 October 2014, 21:17:01
Is my eyesight going  ? or is 007 now a born again Army cadet ??
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 28 October 2014, 21:42:30
No its just my birthday in two days time thought i put my young face on till then
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 29 October 2014, 14:35:40
Paul, we all wish we could put on a young face !
if only.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 30 October 2014, 17:11:27
I see you have also taken my lead, Nice picture Pauline.  Now as my day as passed I revert back to my older self.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 02 November 2014, 00:52:48
Update on the build, the 25 bulk head sections are about to be cut and will then be added one by one to the hull frame that has been made.  Had to make some adjustments to my garage, as the winter is just around the corner and need to put away the trailer tent which has reduced my working space.  But managed to work around and store items away all ship shape line and can still work on both hulls, but only one at a time.
I have been give by Roger (RSM) a set of 4 3 Pound saluting guns from his spare box and they will be put to good use.
Since 3D printing has been in the news for awhile, I have also with the help of Arno (swiftdoc) order a small sample to see how good they are in 1/96 scale and will report back once I have had a chance to view and inspect.
If any one in the forum has built a hull can they advise me on how they worked out how much planking wood they needed and what method they used to calculate their requirements.  I have worked out that I would need 150 to 160 3/4 foot lengths  at 10mm wide in most places and 3/4 mm around the bilge keel curve. I used the beam of the hull x the height x the length and divide by 10mm.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 13 December 2014, 15:38:05
Well have sorted out the garage and am a bit short of space so the shed is were I have to work now through the winter months.  Have cut the first 5 bulkheads and have dried fitted them to the keel.  Photos to follow.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 14 December 2014, 16:24:44
Well as promised here are the photos of the bulkhead sections dry fitted to ensure they fit and all line up.  the section at the very stern (24) will need to have support legs made to the shape of the stern line to support this bulkhead.   The rear point(RP) which is (22 & 21) will need to have recess cut in the keel as the keel is 18mm wide here to take the rudder shaft and the same for 20 which is the same thickness to take the centre prop shaft.   I will cut from each side a 6mm length and 6mm wide so the bulkhead can slide in and fit nicely and when bonded the extra thickness will aid the support of these bulkheads.   I have to ensure that each bulkhead is square to the keel and each side of the bulk head is also square to the centre line.   You also have to think forward a few steps as you build up the bulkheads because thinks need to be done at this point to ensure no problems further down the line.  So to ensure the flight deck will fit nice and lay on the bulkheads I will cut 6mm by 6mm groves a set position from the centre line ready for the stringers to be fitted the full length of the hull.   Leaving enough space for the lifts and the access plates to get inside the hull.

Once all the bulkheads have been dry fitted I will remove them and cut out the centre of each one leaving the supports in the areas of all the open decks and boat decks so they can support the decks later in the build to help in their fitments and position.

Also the line of the two outer prop shafts will also be plotted so that the drilling has been done ready for the shafts to slide in. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 14 December 2014, 16:35:54
It has also been said to me when all the bulkheads have been installed and ready for planking, that I should put the bilge line in so that it is place and then secured to the bulkheads giving a much stronger fit.  Will differently look at this idea before I plank. :wink1:
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: colin on 15 December 2014, 05:36:07
don't forget to sand down the edges, the burn marks from the laser cutting needs to be removed, not very many glues stick to this lasered edge..!!  ::DD
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 15 December 2014, 18:29:22
Thanks for the information Colin, I will have to chamfer the edges to ensure the planks lay nice and smooth, which Ron pointed out when I spoke with him a while back.  Also I have to put some balsa wood along the edges to increase the bonding area for the planks when laid.   Its coming along nice now and once all the bulkheads are in place I can see the final frame and match up the hull lines.   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 17 December 2014, 13:12:45
Here are some more photos of the stern section bulkheads in place up to number 12.   Can not put in number 20 yet until I can use my Xmas gift of an dremal stand to ensure a straight drill for this and the rudder and prop.   So will stop till the new Year.  The stern section was a bit fiddly as I had to use small chisels to cut away recess either side of the stern frame, to allow the frames to fit in.   This section is very week and I am not happy with it at the moment.   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 17 December 2014, 13:27:40
Looking good Paul,   :) Modelling stuff for Christmas, you learned my teachings well grasshopper.   ::DD ::DD ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Merry Christmas matey, and have a wee dram for me at the new year.   ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 17 December 2014, 13:49:27
Thank Joe, yes all good ideas taken on board, I might even get a new dremal 3000 drill too, hows that.   I will raise a glass to you my friend, and I hope you have a nice Christmas with lots of good food, drink and presents. :wink1: :) ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 17 December 2014, 19:20:57
It's looking very good Paul, You also deserve a medal for the Nice work.
Did you order that book for your dad ?
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 17 December 2014, 21:02:04
Thanks, Pauline, i do try hard to make a good model.  The book is with me had a quick read, had a good laugh, and look forward to see what my dad has to say.  Did not cover over seas postings but still good. Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 08 January 2015, 21:36:36
I have a small problem which I am not sure how to resolve.  Could any one help with possible ideas?
In the first picture and the second you will see the bow bulk heads matched with the ship lines, and as you see the bow plans look like the bow is very small and pointed with no reference to the flight deck over hang over the hull.   Picture 3 shows the same bulk heads position on the Flight deck plans in the position they are meant to be.

Picture 4 & 5 show the GRP hull bow with the bulk head lines roughly drawn.  The area on the last photo which is in black I do not know how this is going to be planked! There is nothing there to attach the planks to and nothing for the actual end of the flight deck.   As I lay the planks up to the bow section I am going to be left with fresh air!  Am I wrong or am I looking at this the wrong way?

Any help would be very helpful.   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 09 January 2015, 13:11:52
Hi Paul,
If it were me I would be looking to add the flight deck overhangs using block balsa or foam shaped and fared in with filler after the planking was done, as I understand it you are making a plug mould so weight is not an issue so you can use as much filler as needed to achieve the desired shape,
One thing dose puzzle me, If I were to make a plug mould of a hull, I'd build it on a board upside down to make the planking easier and less change of building in a twist, is there a reason you are building it from keel up, please don't take this as a criticism, I admire you for taking it on and the sterling work you have done up to now, I was just curious.  ::DD ^^^
Joe
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 January 2015, 17:34:02
When doing my research I found out that there was two ways to build a hull keel down or keel up.   When I read on, the article I am following recommended keel down for large models which do not have straight lines and has rounded bow and stern.   The idea was to build the shell with the keel down so that the hull lines can be seen and formed with the bulkheads.   Once all the lines have been matched up the support beams which run from bow to stern, on each side, are put in place to give the whole frame a solidness which will then allow me to turn the shell upside down and put on the stringer just below the hanger deck all the way round ready to plank from the bottom to the top; or I can plank from the deck down and then when at the water line can turn the hull upside down.   More choice and can correct errors.

I have not fully decided if this will be the actual hull or a plug.   I have found that if the hull is planked I can then coat the hull in a compound that is self levelling and when dried and after a couple of coats is as solid as a GRP material.   Its is used to make the master moulds for motor racing fibre parts.  So looking at this, other wise I will get some  pattern making foam and do the plug and then take it down to Ron to see if a hull can be made.

The problem I have is that the bulk heads which have been taken from the plans do not match up with the beam of the flight deck at the bow.  The flight deck at the bow is 95ft in 1/96 that's 9.5 inches.   The bulk heads A and B are only not much bigger then 2 inch and 4 inch.   So the area in front of A looks wrong and I can not quite see how to make the front of the flight deck.   It may be that when the planks are laid out covering the area of the upper and lower decks the twist in the planks will bring the wood up towards the flight deck and then get trimmed off and a beam is made.    So I am looking around to see if any one else has done a scratch build of Ark Royal 1940.   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 09 January 2015, 18:47:26
OK Paul as said I was just curious, as all the scratch built hulls I've seen were built inverted, I think I've found my niche in scratch building on a GRP hull, the most enjoyable areas for me being the running gear, and from the deck up, plus all the detailing which is not to say I won't try a hull build, if I do it will be a bit more simpler than a carrier, but hope you sort yours out, as I've no doubt you will. :) ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 January 2015, 19:32:29
Thanks Joe, its the fun in working out the problem and having a go at something outside my comfort zone.   I have always wanted and did thinks others would not do, I think it came from my days in the service.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: ship's doctor on 12 January 2015, 11:36:45
Hi Paul,

As Joe says I think some sort of balsa blocks to form the bow section would work? Again would recommend Brian King's Advanced Ship Modelling - there is a good section on scratch-built hulls. If you make a balsa block to the actual shape of the hull, then cut a step in the aft end of it it gives you somewhere to 'land' your planks.

Looking like a great build - a really complicated project!

James 

 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 12 January 2015, 13:12:46
Hi James, I have the book and yes was reading about that at the week end.   With all this bad weather up here (and I am on the outer edges of the storms but still bad) I have not had much opportunity  to do any building.   How every I have noticed that on the bulk head sections B and FP there is a section missing from the cut.  Each of these two sections should have an additional section protruding up above the straight edge.   This would give the depth of the hull to the flight deck in this area and give a build platform for the bow. 

To get a block of balsa wood 13/14 inches wide and 12/13 inchs deep and say 6 inches long will be hard.  So if I can not find a supplier for this size I may have to go for the pattern making foam.

Found the build on a 1940 HMS Ark Royal, not much help on the bow as it was not mentioned in the build.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: let go aft on 12 January 2015, 18:44:43
Paul,
if you are still searching  for a book on HMS Illustrious , I have found the ISBN Code Title   Hms Illustrious
Editors   Jesse Russell, Ronald Cohn
Publisher   Books on Demand, 2012
ISBN   5511413003, 9785511413006
Length   166 pages
     There is bookshop in Dartmouth called Compass Books , very good at searching for books. Hope this may assist.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 13 January 2015, 18:04:31
I have never been able to find that book in the UK and the cost from outside the UK was too high and also the postage.  But will keep on looking for it.  Thanks for the info. Paul  :)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 13 January 2015, 18:12:27
Well that's the wood ordered will take the mill about two to three weeks to cut the the wood.  I am getting a special cut of 2.4mm x 10mm x 1200mm x 60 and 2.4mm x 6mm x 1200mm  x 60. also they have a nice large block of Medium Balsa wood 3in x 3in x 36in so that will do my bow and stern.  So now moving on to resolve the bow bulk heads, found I was missing a small area on the top of the sections FP and B.  So getting them re cut.  Once I have the bow bulk heads mounted will fitt all the other bulk heads with the support stringers and take a photo or two to show, before I gut out the centres of each bulk head.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 16 January 2015, 14:45:38
Now have the basic frame up with just four bulk heads to install.  One at the stern which has to be drilled into the keel so the prop shaft can be drilled through and matched up with the other bulk heads.  The other three are at the bow which are items A, B and forward point.  There will need a double groove cut made to fit them in place.   I can now remove the frame from its holding points and turn keel up.   The planking wood is now ready to be delivered so now well on my way.  Hope you like the build so far.

Next question, how best to chamfer the leading edges from 12 to the bow and the opposite from 13 to the stern.  Will need to find out how best to measure the angle and how much to take off.  Also need to but some balsa wood strips on the edges of the bulk heads to add a larger area for the planking to bond too. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 29 January 2015, 17:44:52
Some more work done on the hull.  Made the bilge keel from the ships drawing.  Started with a trace of the outline of the keel.   Then transpose this trace to a card board cut out noting the bulkhead positions.  With a nice bit of wood 4 mm thick copied the ship bulk heads from the drawing to the wood from bulk heads 9 through to 15.  Then transposed the card board outline to the the board matching up the bulkhead line markings. On the hull side line drawing added a 2.4 extra width to allow for the planking wood thickness.  Also made 5 mm extensions protruding from the hull side of the keels to fit into the slots made at the correct position in each of the bulkheads 9 to 15.   The positions of these slots was indicated in the ship lines as to the angle and position on the hull.  See picture 203 and 205 showing the diagonal lines from the ship centre line above the hanger deck line.   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 29 January 2015, 17:49:46
Here is the final result of all that work after a little bit of sand paper work and a buff.  This is again a dry fit, will now work out what areas to remove from the bulkheads to allow for the small outer decks to be fitted and the overall level for the mid section and the motors.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 29 January 2015, 18:31:45
Hi Paul,

looks great so far. I am quite sure you will make a success out of it ^^^ :) ^^^

Kind regards

Arno
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 01 February 2015, 14:41:25
Thanks Arno, She is coming along nicely and I am looking forward to the planking.  Just have to cut out the centre sections of the bulkheads and drill and fit the rudder shaft and centre prop shaft so that I can mark out the route of the props through the bulkheads.   ^^^ :)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: morrison88 on 08 February 2015, 18:28:08
Hi

I have just joined the forum after chatting to someone (sorry do not have a name) when I was ordering some items for my WWII HMS Illustrious at 1/96 scale, he suggested I should join the forum, so here goes.

I purchased the hull from a chap in Cramlington who told me he got it from a member of a model boat club that built a mode Illustrious to take part in a 24 hour endurance competition, he gave me a book on Victorious and I managed to get some 1/96 scale plans, then soon found out the hull is wrong in several places, e g the forward 4.5" mountings are too far aft, and the aft mountings are at flight deck height.

So was pleasantly surprised to read of Mr Swainson and his efforts to date, only wish I had that skill level and patience to do what he has done, more power to your elbow!!!!!.

I live near Glasgow, so will watch what happens with interest




Donald

Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 February 2015, 15:59:00
Hi Donald,

I too found the hull does not match the correct dimensions of HMS Illustrious in any of her refit periods.   You can adjust the front spoons and bring the centre island forward if you have worked with fibre class and GRP hulls.  You just cut out the spoons at the front and cut the same area out where you are going to fit them and then fibre glass then area and away you go.  The rear spoons you just need to lower them a few mm and they will look fine.  The problem is the hull and the deck positions will not match as he will be short in hight for the upper lower deck, but as there is nothing there to be seen it will not matter. Also the plan hull frames are too small for the hull so don't cut them as they will be too small.  You have to trace them with card board as a template.  The hull I have which you see earlier in the build is being turned into HMS Indomitable as the hull lines match.  But below the water line you will have to make a false keel or just leave well alone.

I have never done a hull plank on frame this is my first attempted  and learning as I go along.  As the photo's show or the photo stream in flickr, the main bulkheads have been cut, dry fitted to the keel.  Bilge keel check and fitted.   The frames have now been removed and the centre sections have been cut out.  I have left the hanger deck supports on each bulkhead where there is an out side deck to add the support of the decks when they get fitted.  Also have fitted on bow sections 12 to FP 5 mm balsa wood sections around the edges to aid in the bevelling and giving a greater bonding area for the planks to bond too.  Photos attached.     
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 February 2015, 16:01:20
These are the stern planks.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 26 February 2015, 16:44:21
Thought I would take a break from the hull as I will need a bit of space to plank the hull, so waiting for the better weather to clear the garage of the trailer.  So after finding a supplier for the gun barrels, I thought I would make a start on the two sets of gun turrets to see if I could make them my self.  As you can see I am trying to make as much as possible my self with in reason.

So from the ship plans I checked and measured the dimensions of the turrets.  The height was  15 mm and the circumference  at the base was 43 mm and at the top 33 mm with an angle half cone of 6 mm.  So went about working out the materials required  to make a turret.  Due to the height of 15 mm the base would have to be 1 mm and the top would be 1 mm.  That left the inside gun assembly to be 13 mm high.  So I cut out on card board the base and the top, then worked out the circumference required for the lower section of the turret wall and the height required was 9 mm and allowing for the half cone top of 6 mm that matched the height of 15 mm.  With the card board cut outs it seem to work out but was a bit fiddle, but do able.  But to make 16 of them was a bit much, but never say never.

So with the above information cut out my first turret and bonded the base and side as the first step. Then cut out the cone shape and bonded the ends to from the half cone.  Then bonded that to the top of the base section.  Once the unit had been truly bonded trimmed the over lap to create a nice smooth round turret.  Worked out the size of the gun opening and cut way the area need.

The turret is now ready to receive the gun barrels and the movement arrangement require to allow the barrels to move up and down to an angle of 80 degrees.   This was done by making a three sided square with 1.5 mm styrene. The three sides was cut 19 mm long and 13 mm high, making the two side 20.5 mm long and the back section with an inside measurement of 16 mm.  Each of the barrels would be held in a 6 mm wide by 10 mm thick sold bit of styrene. To achieve this I cut a strip off a 3mm thick sheet of styrene with a width of 11 mm and cut it into sections 11 mm square. Stuck two together and marked out the centre spot and marked a 5 mm diameter circle.  This was then trimmed to remove the square and ready to be placed on a drill and rounded down to a nice smooth circle 6 mm wide and 10 mm in diameter.  Each had a small 1/8 hold drilled through the centre to allow for a brass rod to be passed through. Then each of these was drilled in the centre of the 6 mm wide section; a hole 3.2 mm half way down to accept the gun barrel.  This would allow the gun to pivot up and down on these drums. In between each of this drums a 4 mm section 13 mm high and 12 mm long to give the middle support for the turret and strong pivot point for the barrels.

Once all this was in place this assemble was positioned in the gun turret to the correct point and then the top of the turret was bonded in place.  The cut out area of the barrels was finished off with 0.3 mm styrene to clean and straighten up the gun aperture.  The final base of the turret was ringed at the base to show the seating of the turret into the deck. 

Hope the photos reflect the work carried out.     These photos are dry fit to correct any errors.   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 01 March 2015, 14:56:41
The first trail turret with the next one being done to a better quality of build but have come across a small problem so back to the drawing board.  But can be solved.  Will have to shorten the barrels as the breach section of the barrel is too long and the barrel mounting pivot is not perfect so looking for a supply of 10 mm sold styrene rod to use which will give me a much better quality of finish.  But the turret assembly line is working well. 15 more to go. ::DD
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: colin on 04 March 2015, 08:43:17
busy bee, is our Paul  :)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 04 March 2015, 17:17:12
Hi Colin, just working away, waititng for the better weather so that I can complete the frame of the hull and then start planking. ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 14 March 2015, 15:38:57
Well gun barrels have been shortened to the length required and will be OK.  No supplier of 10 mm styrene rod could be found the larges size anyone had was 6 mm.  So found a 10 mm knitting needle made from APS plastic.  But need a bit of help on how best to drill this with a 3.2 mm hole to accept the gun barrels.  On slow speed the drill will bind and stop in the plastic. At a high speed the drill enlarges the front hole and heats up and residue bonds to the drill.  I am using a dremel drill stand and vise to ensure a straight drill hole but the test runs do not look good.  Any one got any ideas please. ::)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 14 March 2015, 17:30:21
Hi Paul,

I think the dremel revs are too high. I use a cordless srewdriver with low revs for such holes.

Kind regards

Arno
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 14 March 2015, 22:20:19
Thanks Arno, how to you mount this screw driver so that you get a straight inline hole.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 15 March 2015, 08:42:42
I have no mechanical device, only do it by my hands. Fort short distances it works, otherwise you will need a stand to mount the screw driver I suppose.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Dennis on 18 March 2015, 00:09:20
Yea I have tried in the past to use my dremel with the stand did not work well for plastic, like Arno I think the revs are to high heating the plastic. I finally purchase a variable small drill press that seems to do much better and allows me to drill thick stock accurately. The one I use is a Skil.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 18 March 2015, 21:43:01
I have a small RS hand drill which is great for small and detail work, but will only take the dremel size accessories so I can not drill with a 3.2 mm final size, so am going to try a 2.5 or 3 mm and then enlarge with a round file, and see how I get on.  Will make a small 10 mm jig so that the unit sits square and I can drill.
 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 30 March 2015, 16:45:52
Well I have racked my brains and really had a hard job to find a way to drill the gun barrell access holes, which are clean and straight.  Then just like any other thought, up pops the idea.  I made a jig using a square block of wood with a 10 mm hole drilled through the centre.  Then cut the square to 16 mm in length to match the size of the tube.  Then drilled 3 mm holes in a position 3.5 mm in from each end on a straight line draw down the center.  I put each section into the center of the jig and then using my small hand held RS drill; drill it using the holes already drilled.  Job done test worked fine so onwards and upwards.

The other problem I have been struggling with hence the quiet spell is the stern of the keel.  Trying to find a way to insert the 8 mm thick prop shaft into the keel and through the bulkheads.   Well this has been done and I am now bonding the bulkheads to the keel.  Can only do two a day to ensure the glue bonds and cures to ensure a strong bond.  So as I progress will post photos for the work as I go along.  Will not bore you with photos of each frame will show sections as I go along.

Jig Photos now added to this blog
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Dennis on 01 April 2015, 00:26:32
Well done Paul, what a great idea!!! I will have to try that with some of the small brass I have been trying to drill as it is round stock as well. ^^^ ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 01 April 2015, 07:24:28
great idea, Paul :) I will give a try to that as well!
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 01 April 2015, 13:21:32
Your welcome guys, it helps when a problem is resolved and shared with others.  That is how we expand our knowledge base.  :)  Photo of the plank and frame to follow.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 02 April 2015, 13:16:57
Here are the frame section from 13 to 24 now in place and bonded with the prop shafts located and in position ready to be bonded once the bilge keels are in place and the location for the position of the two 'A' frames have been recorded in bulkhead 19.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 02 April 2015, 13:21:46
I am sure some of you will notice the cut out sections along both side of the frames.  These are the platforms for the boat decks, quarter deck and aft side deck ready for supporting  the decks when fitted.  There will be no need to use supports for these decks as I have put them in at the planning stage.  This will save a lot of hassle and fiddly work later, just build the decks and slide in and bond. ^^^ :)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 13 April 2015, 14:36:21
Can any one help with some information on the attached photo which show some sort of window/slide cover or filter to the rear of the 4.5 HA/LA Mk111 gun turrets.  I have done the first set of turrets and fitted the air vents and shell extractor on the the 8 turrets, but not really sure what these area are.
1. the op of the turret in the foreground has some sort of riveted seam in the shape of a cover.
2. the turret in the background has what looks like windows/filters on the belvel of the turret at the rear.

Have not been able to trace any info so any gunnery officer/seaman have an idea what they might be?
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 13 April 2015, 18:44:51
Here are photos of the 1st batch of 8 gun turrets which I will use for the 2nd aircraft carrier (GRP hull).  These where a trail run to iron out the build process so the 2nd batch for the plank and frame hull will be much better.   I found some photos which show the position of the air vents and the shell case extraction chute and the rear of the turrets I have put in the detail of the photos which I think is rear hatches to enter and leave the gun turret by the gun crew.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 15 April 2015, 17:25:10
Bit more done today, worked out the area of the platform which will hide the lead weight and strengthen the frames when bonded in.  Also checked the position of the motors in relation to the propshafts.  All drive will be by belt so need to ensure clearance for the belt and pulley system.   Once the template was measured and marked out on card this was cut and as the photos show fitted in without any problem.   The template will now be transferred to a section of 3.6mm ply ready for cutting and filling to fit.   The center line will be the cut line to fit in each section and when planking is complete will be removed and bonded in once the lead balance has been put in.  All this planning now will aid the fitment of motors and servo along with wiring so I should not have to make any adjustment and work in confined places later in the build.   I will also be putting cable conduits along and through the frames to keep wiring clear and tidy.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 17 April 2015, 20:40:03
all the frames have now been installed along with the rudder and all three propshafts with A frames located and ready for the making of the securing brackets.  This will hopefully be worked out next week and then made.  Have to see what will be the best way.  Also did some work on the GRP hull in the same dock yard.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 23 April 2015, 20:20:48
More work carried out on Lusty, her lower deck (Plate form for running gear has been cut and fitted (temp) so that the access for the props can now be seen.   I have now removed the keel supports and turn the hull upside down.  I have started to rub down the frames so that the planks will lie as flat as possible and follow the contours  of the hull.  I have her sitting on the flight deck sheets to mark off the frame locations and work out were the bow starts and the stern so that I can make the moulded sections in these areas with balsa wood block and then sand to shape.  Tested with a couple of strips of plank wood to get the feel.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 25 April 2015, 13:12:23
Does anyone know or have any photos of the type of tractor that was used on the decks of Aircraft carriers during the 1939 to 1942.  I have been told is was David Brown tractors!  is that correct or did they just move the aircraft by hand (bodies of men)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 27 April 2015, 09:14:50
Hi Paul,
 I'll get onto an aircraft handler friend of mine and get back to you on that one.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 27 April 2015, 11:35:59
Hi Pauline,

Have been pointed to this picture of HMS Illustrious dated around 1944/45.  Not sure if they where around in the 1939/1941 period.
The second photo show some sort of vehicle/crane in the background, do not know what it is or called. 
Paul.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Troy Tempest on 27 April 2015, 12:28:47
Hi Paul
Ive just trawled through my books looking for information to assist
Its my belief that the RN didn't go into Tractors until quite late once the imported US aircraft types came into service e.g. the Avenger as they were heavy.  In fact one of my sources shows the first generation jet the Supermarine Attacker still being handled mandraulically, which is I believe what they did right up to about 1944 on all types
However the photo you have posted shows the light flight deck tractor from late war which is actually available from F4 models in 1/72, viz - http://www.f4models.blogspot.ru/2014/06/royal-navy-1940s-1950s-flight-deck.html (although sadly not in 1/96)
I believe Flight Deck Mobile Cranes have long been known as "Jumbo"
I hope this helps
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Troy Tempest on 27 April 2015, 12:46:03
BTW I've stumbled across this website, is it of any interest or value?
http://www.armouredcarriers.com/battle-damage-to-hms-illustrious/
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 27 April 2015, 13:03:35
Hi Troy, I believe that may well be true, and that the only item which you call a Jumbo was the only deck equipment used on Illustrious in 1940 to 1942.  There is a photo of, what looks like a damaged Jumbo next to the bomb damaged sustained when on route to Malta GC next to the No 2 pom pom damage.  I could be wrong but the tyre gives it away.

But thanks for the info all helps. Paul  ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 27 April 2015, 14:38:10
Hi Paul,
 My aircraft handler friend has sent me this link to a website.
I hope it helps
Good luck
Pauline

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 27 April 2015, 14:40:17
Hi Paul,
 The crane is a Ransomes and Rapier crane (Ipswich) used in the navy on carriers up to the 1970's.
can't see enough detail on the tugs.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 27 April 2015, 16:13:54
Thanks Pauline, had a good read of your contacts web site and found a photo of the tug on one of the carriers.  Also managed to find a nice photo of the type 4142 6 ton mobile Ransome and Repair crane (jumbo).  So should be able to make my own model from this. As always everyone's help is fantastic. Paul   ^^^ :)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 28 April 2015, 14:01:16
How this for a good close up of the Jumbo.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 28 April 2015, 15:56:59
Give sailors a plane and they break it !
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 28 April 2015, 16:06:05
And thats not all they can break!
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 01 May 2015, 15:57:04
Little more work done to the stern.   Need to find a way to make a nice even curve for the stern that was correct and not just place a solid bit of wood and shape.  So I copied the ship lines for the decks and then like the ship frames cut them out and made template of the decks and then placing them on the frame cut as necessary and position as per the ship plans.  Worked perfectly, and all I have to do now is insert cut sections of balsa wood and bond in place.  then rub down to the edge of the deck templates.

The bow is a different problem thats next.  ::DD
Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 08 May 2015, 16:06:09
Well the stern section is now ready to be shaped after all the deck sections have been installed and filled with balsa wood.  So just have to cut off the excess wood once the glue has dried  then rub down to gain the shape.  (Photos to follow).

But here is a question for some advise.  With the bow I have to create the shape from blocks of balsa.  Is there any way I can mirror the shape of the bow to this block wood sections to gain the shape and polish to a final finish.  ::DD  I am worried that I fail to make the shape from drawings.  Advise please?
Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 10 May 2015, 14:55:08
Here are the photos of the stern section.  I have still to finally rub down once the planking has been done to marry up the thickness of the planks to the stern section.  The bow is as said before another problem.  Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 19 May 2015, 21:56:39
Have now started to shape the bow and doing it in stages.  I see from the photos the bos has a drooping nose which then tucks under and forms the the shape.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 06 June 2015, 16:03:05
The bow shape is coming along nice and slow, need to take my time in this area will post pictures soon once I feel they give a fair view of what the bow will look like.

I also am trying out some model moulding kit from a company which looks good but as I was given it free to try I will see how it goes.  The first moulds came out OK.  The mould is very elastic and can take some broad shapes and come out of the mould nicely.  I tried a few moulds on lift rafts, door and a ammo box.  I have been advised that Lego bricks are the best to use for making the box as they hold better and when the mould is cured they come apart and can be used again.  so will try Joe's and this idea and see how they work out.  Photos to follow. :smiley1:         
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 16 June 2015, 15:06:52
Just back from a we break with the good lady and here are the first set of moulds that I made. Have some more on the go with other items being tested.  Photos to follow.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 16 June 2015, 15:29:43
That looks very nice. Regarding the results I think I should join the moulders (you and Joe) as well some time in the future ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: radio joe on 16 June 2015, 16:06:05
looks good to me Paul,  ^^^  good fun isn't it, and a fascinating extension to our hobby, and of course you always have a supply of spares if you happen to loose a fitting off a boat.  :) ::DD
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 16 June 2015, 16:13:29
Very true Joe, I am trying a few other items as mentioned will let you see the end result once I have mixed the moulds and then worked out how much I need to use and mix to make the end result. But have three moulds now for the Carley Floats so 5 down 155 to go. ::DD
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 19 June 2015, 17:02:18
Well happy with the mould method, will now be able to design and make my own masters and moulds for item which are not available to purchase as I am happy with the procedure.  I am hoping the Ron will have all the models of the ship sea boat range ready to be made so that I can see the end result and decide on my purchase's. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 17 July 2015, 18:19:30
OK back from holiday and visiting my dad so now back to planking my hull.  This will be fun, have shaped the bow and will finish it off once the planks are in.  Has anyone worked with household Ammonia for shaping wood.  In a book I am reading it's supposed be the best way to bend wood (once fully dry) to obtain very sharp bends like my spooners at front and rear.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 27 July 2015, 15:47:32
Some photos of the work so far.  Started with laying two 5mm sections to start off the run of planks, that was followed by two sections of 10 mm planking.  Each section was laid up and positioned to ensure that they all laid flat and flush with the next plank.  Then worked out where each section joined at the frames so that I had staggered joints all along the keel never having more than one on each bulkhead.  I could only do one plank section at a time and used small flat square sections held by clamps to ensure the sections between the bulkheads married up and bonded flush with the upper bonded blank.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 27 July 2015, 15:52:59
Before bonding each plank is positioned and clamped in place overnight to get it to hold the bends and curves of the hull line.   This helps in the bond as the planks are ready to be bonded the next day.  So far no need to steam to gain shape.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 27 July 2015, 21:15:45
Gosh ! That is a real beast !
Mind you I am really pleased with my own construction of a 1/96
Kittiwake class corvette hull. Plank on frame then resin coated.
Very pleased with the end result.It was my first attempt at making my own hull and
I'd certainly reccommend doing it to those who cannot find a commercial hull for a
build.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 29 July 2015, 15:17:25
Thanks for the comments and yes she is a big beast.  Now that the planks are going on she looks like the the hull I was hoping for.  The frame have different made the difference, so the time spent in this area really helps to make a fine hull. Next group of photos will show the bottom planked up to the bilge keel. and the propshafts encased and ready to seal this work from the inside.

It would be nice to see your work on your hull build. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 03 August 2015, 20:18:17
Well that me about one third of the way through, as you can see now I have to start shortening the planks lengths  to create a straight line round the hull sides to create the water line.  That now means I will have to tailor the ends to match up with the water line at the stern and bow.  A lot of cutting and trimming. ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: melbreak on 04 August 2015, 10:12:45
Hi,  Being ex AH, The Andrew tended to use muscle power, when ever it could, as I know to my aching back !LOL. However I did hear a very interesting snippet many years ago. When ever the Carriers embarked MT from the Royals, Army etc. If there was Jeeps with them, they "acquired" one or two for transport or aircraft towing. It was also current in the USN, if you read the History of USS Yorktown, its written in there. Hope this helps, shove a jeep onboard and paint it Pusser Blue!
Hope this helps
Ron
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 04 August 2015, 15:50:18
 ^^^ Thanks for that tip Ron, will jeep my eye out for a match box jeep.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 04 August 2015, 15:51:12
Here is how I am planning to work out how the remaining planks are going to be fitted to the water line level.  Marked the water line from the deck and marked each bulkhead. Then placed a 10 mm plank to below the line and held in place while I check the any future planks placed will seat straight and should not require any major stealers to be fitted.  Once done placed a 5 mm plank above the 10 mm I had just placed and then pinned in place.   The under side of this plank will be the top of the water line.  Then using the clamps I placed a mixture of 5 mm and 10 mm planks in place held by clamps to work out how best to position the main planks and mark for were they need to be cut to fit into the next plank.   Once done I remove the planks one by one and place them on my work bench in order they came off ready to be fitted back in place once the final cuts have been worked out and cut.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 12 August 2015, 23:47:28
Now she is planked to the water line and is now ready to be planked from the deck to the water line.  Also lower deck plate has been fitted.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 21 August 2015, 13:58:56
The next part of the build before I finished off the planking from the deck down to the water line was to cut out the landing deck and position with all the spoon decks in place.  So my first idea was to find some place who could photo copy the ship lines and reproduce a full scale deck image and then I could get that printed out and transferred to to the planks of 1.5 mm beech marine ply.  No such luck, no one around me had a copier to cover the 8 foot plans.  So I tried joining together 7 sheets of tracing paper and then copied the deck straight from the NMM plans.  Worked out ok but felt there was too many possibilities of errors.  Any way tried it and then transferred the  copy to my wood with carbon paper and a 0.01mm marker.   The plan came out ok but made the one error that scuttled the drawing.  The mistake I made was to draw a centre line down the center of my ply and then started to transfer the drawing from the stern forward.   When I got to the area of the Island which as you all know is on the starboard side I found that I had no ply to transfer my overhang and gun deck overhangs in the area front and rear of the island.  So as I had two set of the ply for both ships I am building I measured the distance from the centre line on the ship plan to the extreme on the port side and found the distance was 150cm. So using the left side of the deck ply I measured 150cm and redraw my centre line using the very edge of the ply as the outer edge of the deck on the port side and thus saving some cutting time and leaving more space for the overhang on the starboard side.

I also cut out the four spoon decks and fitted them to the hull frames to ensure the deck lined up.   Once the deck had been cut I placed on the hull and checked.  Some slight adjustment required but on the whole it fitted fine.  So to check if the spoon deck were correct fitted the gun turrets to check if the height was correct.  Also fitted the island to give an impression of the hull deck. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: colin on 25 August 2015, 08:43:08
She is definitely starting to look the part  ^^^ ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 25 August 2015, 18:10:52
Thanks Colin, I have to agree with you now she is taking shape. ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 25 August 2015, 22:01:02
The beast takes shape ! a labour of love indeed.
Do you intend adding plating detail on the hull Paul.
I plated the hull of my HMS Shearwater with lead foil.
It worked well.
Incidently, what is a spoon deck ? Do you mean gun sponson ?
well done paul.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Troy Tempest on 26 August 2015, 11:54:15
Taking shape indeed and a lovely shape she is too.
I attach links to two videos for your perusal Paul
Both concern Flight Deck Operations on British Carriers and although many years removed from HMS Illustrious' era there is some great footage showing Tractors and Cranes.
The first is aboard HMS Hermes in the 1960s illustrating the different equipment types for  Hangar a/c handling (powered dollies) and Flight Deck handling (Tractors)

It can be found here - http://forces.tv/89573406

The second is aboard HMS Ark Royal in the 70s and also shows Jumbo being used as well as the emergency barrier being deployed

That is here - http://forces.tv/08647806

They are both 25 minutes long and really fascinating even if not directly relevant to your project.  The second one even provides a glimpse of one of my old "O" boat fast fleet tankers
What might be useful is seeing the state of the paintwork showing both weathering and wear and tear
Enjoy!
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 29 August 2015, 11:48:53
As always the the senior service puts us right, yes is should be sponson decks, just thought that spoon deck which pokes out the side looks like a spoon! Ha.  I picked up the wording incorrectly  so sorry for that.  But she is coming along nicely  I am about to reach these sponson decks just now and trying to work out how best to do the planking so that they look and feel correct.  You can not bend wood to these angles so need to make a frame me thinks!

Try thanks for the links very interesting they were.   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 29 August 2015, 12:51:00
Troy, there was some nice shots of Malta GC and the Grand harbour and Valletta.  You never know I may have been around when they film it in 1960.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 10 September 2015, 17:12:53
Do you intend adding plating detail on the hull Paul.
I plated the hull of my HMS Shearwater with lead foil.
It worked well.

As a matter of interest Pauline, what thickness did you use for the inner plate and then for the outer plate.  Do you know how much weight it added to the your hull.

Thanks in advance
Paul.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 10 September 2015, 17:15:44
I know I have been a bit quiet but have just about completed the planking in between the sponson gun decks and the stern is complete.  The bow and the flight deck sections are next so will post photos when I have worked out what I am going to do around the sponson decks. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 11 September 2015, 08:19:55
Morning Paul,
 The lead foil I used was 0.11 mm and 0.15 mm for the plating.
The weight was only a few grammes. Shearwater is only 29" by 3"
in 1/96 scale. The build was plank on frame and a thin resin top coat.
I would say that the final weight is comparable to a commercial produced
resin hull. I hope this helps .
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 14 September 2015, 14:58:03
Thanks Pauline for the information.  I was going to use plastic card 0.10 and 0.15 to line the hull after the gel coating has been applied.  As the hull is nearly 8 ft long and 13 inches wide and from the deck to the keel is 14 inches.  Thats a lot of rolls of lead the cost would make it uneconomical me thinks for my boat.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 22 September 2015, 17:45:07
Photos as promised had to work out how the front 40" search light platforms would be fitted and how the bow would match up.  I think I have got there now.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Dennis on 23 September 2015, 23:29:11
Wow Paul, looks amazing!! The hull is really starting to take shape. ^^^ ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 24 September 2015, 15:53:39
Thanks Dennis, yes the hull is now nearly ready to be shaped in the area of the center propshaft, then the two outer shafts to be drilled and sealed and then rubbed down ready for resin coating  and fiberglass cloth coating to seal her.  But yes she will be looking nice when finished.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 03 October 2015, 16:56:04
Update on the build, started to rub down the hull and have now installed the two outer propshafts and all the sponson gun decks have been installed.  So just taking my time to rub down the hull with 120 grit paper at the moment and then will move to a fine grade to finish off.   Then once winter is over the resin and glass fibre matting will done. 

Question:  Should I cut out all the deck side openings before I resin or after?

Made small inserts for the balance weights to sit in and these will be bonded into the hull under the deck floor in between the bulkheads,  which holds the motors.  Photos attached of the idea and see how it works out.

The last part of the hull is causing me a problem as the last photo shows.  The hull has to meet the overhang of the front sponson gundeck walk way to the bow and also match and meet the trailing edge of the 40 inch search light platform.   Just not sure how this is going to work out.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: colin on 07 October 2015, 09:57:12
is the Hull going to be for a plug... or will you be using this Hull..?
if you are going to use this Hull for the Model then yes by all means cut the openings out before the resin.
if being used for a plug then they need to be made visible by showing the cut lines, this can be done with mico rods

most of the Bigger boats over here that need ballast, they use, used fish tins and fill them with molten lead.

not to sure on the last photo... but I guess it needs to match the plans in some way..  ;D ::DD

doing fine Paul, keep it up  ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 07 October 2015, 12:13:04
Thanks Colin,  I think I will use the hull as I feel that the hull may not be good enough for a plug due to the centre prop shaft ending. Will see how it goes when I sand down and fill with plastic wood.  I thought that the opening should be cut and then when the resin is applied with the matting it will give strength to these areas.  Also the other school of though is that it will be much easier to cut them out once the resin and matting has been applied as the area being cut will be stronger and less likely to split.

As for the bow, the front section bow to the platform is straight forward.  The area after the platform is going to need a block of wood cut to support the circular form of the platform and matches the deck line to the sponson gun decks.  The section under side of this need to be angled so that is meets the end of the platform and is tapered to give support for the planks to bond to and then twist to match the curve of the hull.  So working with some balsa wood to see what I can design to suit.

I am going to take her to a open day at our local Maritime Museum on the 16 Oct to display and hope to brink some younger blood into the hobby and club.

So will have all the props and rudders in along with the lower deck and motors positioned and the deck held down with the island and pompom plus  the 6 x 4.5 guns in place along with some aircraft.   

Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 27 November 2015, 11:31:03
Sorry if I have gone quiet with the build but have been too involved with my Local Royal British Legion Scotland branch with poppy appeal and parades along with funerals and being a bugler for my sins have attended for Last post to be played.  The weather has not helped either so as Christmas draws near may be able to get back into the shed.   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 01 May 2016, 00:51:43
Work has restarted on the build, as the garage is now clear of the camping trailer.  Working on the second set of guns and working out where the open decks need to be cut.  Hull is fully planked and rubbed down.  The center prop has been shaped and the rudder has been fitted. Photos to follow.

The last photo shows the three stages of the turret construction once the main section of the turret has been bonded and filed down. The middle turret has the the top bonded and the right hand photos shows the side and base skins in position.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 07 May 2016, 14:59:00
Did a bit more work on the forward search light platforms made some paper templates to work out the shape.  Then transferred the template to a bit of bolster wood and rub them down to suit the curve of the ships bow.  Once a nice fit transferred to 1.5mm ply and reshaped to fit.  Then cut out as per the plans to show the strengthening cutouts and the taped in place as per the photo of the damage caused back in 1940.  Then made the trunking for the searchlight and the support cross sections.  one done one more to go. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Troy Tempest on 09 May 2016, 17:29:59
Hi paul
Thats looking great, I wonder why they fitted searchlights there?
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 May 2016, 20:13:44
Started on making the life boat crane mounting which will sit under the life boat deck overhang.  So taking the measurements from the plans I worked out and made a paper cut model.  Then made a working model with plastic car.  With this template and then marked out the cut lines on to a section of balsa wood block.   Once all the angles where cut using grades of sand paper rubbed down to obtain the shape required.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 09 May 2016, 21:14:31
Not sure Troy, but on her first refit they were replaced with single barrel boffor.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Dennis on 13 May 2016, 03:00:08
Hey Paul, well done!! That is going to be a beast on the water.  ^^^ ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Troy Tempest on 13 May 2016, 17:49:28
Not sure Troy, but on her first refit they were replaced with single barrel boffor.
Certainly make sense, replacing a Searchlight with a 40mm!
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 25 May 2016, 15:41:52
After some thought and thinking about the quarter deck and lower upper deck I have now made a start on working out how to line up the decks with the out side hull.  Earlier in this post I asked the question should I cut out the deck apertures before I lay the woven fiber matting along with coats of epoxy or should I leave and cut out later.  The answer came from Colin and I asked around and the information was the same.  So I made paper templates of the lower up deck and the quarter deck so that I could cut 1.5 mm decks to same shape and with finer adjustments sand papered them into position so that they lay flat.  Using the 10 cm (100 mm) rule I learnt I place the ship drawings onto the hull and lined them up with the  frames of my build.  This then gave me the position of each aperture and also the other decks along the hanger deck.   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 25 May 2016, 15:46:56
So with some ruler work and a home made block scribe I worked out the hight for the lower upper deck apertures and marked them out ready for cutting.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 25 May 2016, 15:52:22
The rear quarter deck had some work to be done so that I could measure and fit the quarter deck so cut out the rear deck area which I had filler with balsa wood during the build.  Then using the template cut out the deck and fitted.   Again using the block scribe I marked out the deck level and then transposed the deck apertures ready for testing and cutting out.   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Troy Tempest on 26 May 2016, 17:08:07
Great progress Paul.
Seeing the openings reminds me of Curry lunches on the quarterdeck of HMS Hermes in the Med back in '77
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 26 May 2016, 18:04:13
Yes I must confess did love the military curry lunches on a Friday night.   Did not have the pleasure of a nice quarter deck in a nice warm country other then HMS Tamra in Hong Kong. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Troy Tempest on 31 May 2016, 09:45:15
Well a stone frigate is better than no frigate...and in Honkers too - very nice
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 31 May 2016, 19:24:29
At the moment I am planking the quarter deck and lower upper deck ready to confirm the measurements for these deck apertures before I cut them out. All the eight gun turrets have been completed and are now ready for primer and then top coat.  Got hold of some woven fiber cloth to see if it is OK and will do the job.
Photos to follow.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 02 June 2016, 13:15:37
The quarter deck has now been planked and the lower upper deck is halfway through waiting on new planks to completed the work.  Once done will be able to measure the hight of all the deck apertures before cutting. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 02 June 2016, 13:46:35
All gun turrets have been completed and primed ready to be painted.  Question, when painting the gun barrels, would the whole barrel be painted gun metal or would it have the same as the turret its self.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: colin on 02 June 2016, 15:37:48
good question Paul... I have seen both variations.. on the real ships.. and on Models..
so I guess its the modeller's preference  ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 02 June 2016, 20:37:21
Colin, I was wondering if the ships of my period 1940,s would not have had painted gun barrels.  I have not been able to find a color photo of her during the period after she was built, still looking.  So it may well be up to me.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 04 June 2016, 11:49:47
Having confirmed that the deck level on the lower upper deck was correct redraw the apertures and cut them out.  As they are spaced some distance apart the was no problem with cutting them out as long as you take your time.  Once the woven fiber cloths has been applied the support to the sections between the apertures will be stronger. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 04 June 2016, 12:05:39
However when it came to the quarter deck hit a problem when checking the deck high and the positions of the hull beams 21 and 22.  They fell in the middle or to one side of the deck apertures.  As these would have to be cut out and that would leave these sections hanging free and only supported by the planks and the stringers that run the full length of the hull.  Due to the rear section of the hull having a drupe section the strings also break at beam 21.  So had a wee think what can I do to add extra strength to these beams at the top and stop them collapsing down if any weight was placed in this area.  So added three extra support beams running across the under side of beams from 20 to 23.  Once in place have started to cut out the deck apertures.   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 06 June 2016, 16:57:02
Quarter deck all cut out and the deck is more or less in place just one or two high spots to file down around the sides to let it lay flat ready for the deck items to be fitted and then varnished.  Think I will fit this before I lay the hull cloth fiber so that the deck is sealed in and water tight.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 15 June 2016, 21:40:07
Well I bit the bullet and started to cut out each of the deck apertures.  So I started by laying the upper deck plans running the full length of the hull lining up with the stern and bow.  With the set square I lined up each of the scantlings to ensure I was correct.  With this set of plans in place I then laid the Port view plans on top and then lined them up with the upper lower deck plans so that I had the correct position of all the boat decks corresponding to the quarter deck.  Then with the aid if the set square I marked the vertical lines of each aperture.  Then using my digital Vernier gauge I measured the depth of each deck support beam I had cut out during the manufacture and cutting of each of the scantlings.  This then gave me the deck level.  With the aid of my dividers I measured the height and width for each deck aperture.  I then used a 0.4 mm drill and checked each deck level to ensure I was in the correct ball park.  The end result on the Starboard side is my achievement.  All the deck are just held in place not bonded yet.  Hope you like the end result.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Troy Tempest on 16 June 2016, 14:59:21
Looking superb
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 16 June 2016, 19:33:48
Thanks Troy.  Was worried at first if they would cut OK, and so far they have worked out well.  Will look the part once GRP matting  has been applied.

Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 17 June 2016, 06:57:30
You are right Paul, she looks the part ^^^ I wonder if after applying the matting the epoxy will not rinse into the openings. It might have been better to do the matting before opening the hull? Just a thought. Keep up the good work! :) :wink1: :)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 17 June 2016, 12:04:04
I thought about that and it was recommended that I cut before hand and when laying the matting I can trim these areas and turn over the edges to seal these deck areas so no water gets inside and rots the wood from the inside..   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 17 June 2016, 13:09:11
OK Paul. Last year I have built a vintage outboard racer (not Deans so not part of this forum) which has only two openings (tubes for the water cooled ESC). So I am not experienced in building aircraft carriers ;D :) ;D
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 08 July 2016, 12:01:21
Work has now started on the Port side of the hull to cut out the remaining deck apertures, the boat deck has been done and ready to be bonded in place.  Thinking of the boat decks have now to think about the boats that are on board.  Should I try to build them my self or buy in.  Is it possible to get drawings of the larger motor launchers such as the 36 ft Motor Pinnace, 35 ft Fast Motor Boat, 35 ft Fast seaplane tender.  Also need 25 ft fast motor boat 32 ft life cutter. plus the usual 27 ft whaler a total of 17 plus boats.

I believe the 32 ft life cutter and the 36 ft Motor Pinnace are the same as those on board HMAS Sydney 11  see link. http://www.australias-titanic.com/sydneys-boats/. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: ship's doctor on 08 July 2016, 12:33:21
Hi Paul
I think the 32ft cutter and 36ft boats are probably standard... I used the drawings from Sydney for Suffolk, so Deans have the vac form mould for the 36 ft cutter.
There are drawings in the anatomy of the ship series of the 36 ft and 35ft boat as I remember. I bought resin fittings for the 32ft cutter and 35ft fast boats. Deans have some resin boats now so they might have them
More details are on the Suffolk thread
Hope this helps!
James
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 08 July 2016, 17:10:05
 ^^^ Will take a another look at your build and chat to Ron and see id any of the boats he got will help me.  I know I can get the 27 ft whaler and the standard motor launch but the others I am not sure about.  Also its the size I need to find too to ensure they do fit.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Troy Tempest on 09 July 2016, 10:34:43
Hi Paul
Quay craft make a 25ft fast motor boat
http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/quaycraft-boats-rn96.html
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 10 July 2016, 14:56:39
Thanks troy,  they are out of stock but going to chat with Ron during the week and see what I can arrange with him from his stock.  I am sure he will be better stocked as Cornwall models boats do not carry stock.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: rsm on 12 July 2016, 08:57:25
Model dockyard have stock of quite a few Quaycraft boats at 1/96th scale:

http://www.model-dockyard.com/acatalog/1_96_Scale.html

And You could also try John Haynes:

http://johnrhaynes.com/catalog/
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 12 July 2016, 16:47:13
I have sent a copy of the boat drawings to Ron; that are her consignment of ship boats.  He will see if he has any that will suit and then what is left I will look around for.  Thanks for all the other details but will wait to see if Ron can supply.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 29 July 2016, 18:00:07
More work completed on the build. Port side has now had all the deck apertures cut and all the sub decks have been made and fitted. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 29 July 2016, 18:11:26
Have also completed the lower upper deck planking and made the anchor chain equipment and positioned some of the deck items.  The deck can slide in place and has now been closed off.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 30 July 2016, 15:41:50
All the small decks have now been removed and the blast weight deck has been bonded to the keel ready for the lead weight to be added before the lower deck is placed.  Fitted the complete rudder and bonded in the pivot shaft and the brass seat for the inner shaft to rotate in.  This will enable the rudder to be lubricated without any fuss.  All I have to do now is fit the servo and connect the push and pull rods.  Will fit two rods just so that there is no possibility of a single rod off or working loose.  Then I will start  on laying the cloth fibre matting and sealing the hull ready for priming.  Looking forward to this as this will show the hull in its true light and should look great.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Troy Tempest on 30 July 2016, 16:10:39
I'm looking forward to seeing that! ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 01 August 2016, 00:11:04
 ^^^ thanks Troy so am I.  Just wondering which grade of Fibre cloth to use 100 or 200 grams any got some suggestions?
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 01 August 2016, 12:23:12
Here are the photos with the ballast plates bonded in which will hold 1.53 kg of lead at the keel and at the lowest point.  Then the next photos show the lower deck in place with the position of the drive motors.  This again is low down so that the hull is pushed through the water and not pushing the bow upwards requiring more weight in the bow then is necessary.  Also the rudder pivot guide is in place and ready to be sealed in place.   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 01 August 2016, 17:31:31
Hi Paul,
coming along nicely :) ^^^ :)For my vintage outboard racer I used 80 grams fiber cloth. 200 grams will be too stiff to get around curves without producing creases I think.

Regards
Arno
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 01 August 2016, 20:25:46
Thanks Arno.  I have gone for 100 grams 2-2 twill, and XCR epoxy resin, have been advised that the 2-2 twill will go well with the hull curves and lay nice.  Also been told to do a single coat first so that the wood will be sealed and then once cured then lay the fibre cloth on and then put on more Epoxy, with its self levelling should give me a nice smooth finish.   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Dennis on 05 August 2016, 06:32:37
What a beast!!! Its huge, looking awesome Paul.  ^^^ ^^^ As for the fibre cloth I always do a resin coat on the wood first as well and let it cure. It stops the wood from absorbing the resin from out of the cloth and leaving dry spots.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 06 August 2016, 16:38:12
Hi Dennis, yes she is a beast but great fun in building her.

Before I put the first coat of Epoxy onto her I need to make a flight deck that fits nice and evenly.  The first deck I cut was a template to ensure the hull was within the 1/96 tolerance.  It helped me to ensure the beam was correct.  I ended up with about 1.5 mm wider then the template. Not bad for my first plans build.  So made up some cards and laid them along the hull and marked out the actual beam and then cut this out and draw the out line on the new deck.  I also left 1 mm to extra to leave space for error.  So will cut the new deck and then mark all the small decks and overhang's which are on the plans to match the hull.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 14 August 2016, 17:19:11
More work done. All spoon decks have been bonded in and sealed and filled to make a smooth finish also the rear flight deck support structure has been added to ensure the stern looks like the real thing.  New deck is about to be cut and the epoxy job ready to start on Monday if the weather is nice and warm to allow the first coat to cure.  Here is hoping.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 14 August 2016, 17:47:20
Hi Paul,
 Looking very good indeed.
I expect you'll be starting on the knife and fork decks soon!!!
I take it you refer to the sponsons. or was that the spell checker kicking in ?
Any way enough of humour. A great challenge and well tackled where will you keep it ?
Well done
Pauline
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Troy Tempest on 14 August 2016, 18:00:21
Hi Paul
Looking "Glorious" and "Magnificent" in all her "Indomitable" "Glory", it looks like this will lead to a "Victorious" conclusion and a "Colossus" of a model as Minerva has suggested above. Your modelling skills will "Triumph" and difficulties overcome by your "Implacable" spirit, stay calm and don't get "Furious" when overcoming obstacles, that way you can stay serene and "Majestic" in spirit and use that as a "Bulwark", as your "Powerful" abilities overcome anticipated "Terrible" mishaps. Keep an "Eagle" eye out on the detail in those plans and you will be "Invincible". You are a modelling "Hercules" building a "Leviathan" of a model. I look forward to seeing her on the "Ocean" - sorry what's the name of the ship again? ::DD ::DD
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 14 August 2016, 20:59:57
I mus say Troy, your ability to name nearly every ship in the fleet is out standing.  Just in case you missed her out she is coming along fine and SHE is as I am sure you know SHMB worshipped.

Once she is built I will take her to shows and already have a night booked with the local sea cadet for an information session on HM ships.  Once done she will go to my local maritime museum in Irvine if she is good enough. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 14 August 2016, 23:29:37
Troy there is a few that would feel a bit miffed by not being mentioned in the story of the birth of the British Aircraft carrier. “Argus” along with “Courageous” was very hurt as they are 1st and 3rd to be of that breed. “Hermes” I am sure would have words with the 3 different versions of “Ark Royal”. The “Unicorn would have a “Formidable “and “Indefatigable” argument with “Theseus” in the blue yonder. “Venerable” along with “Warrior”, “Perseus” and “Pioneer” would feel a bit out of it if they had not been seen or heard.  Also “Audacious (Ex Eagle)” would have been “Irresistible (Ex Ark Royal)” if they all had meet “Africa”, ”Malta” , “New Zealand” and “Gibraltar” had they left the slipway.  But “Centaur” and the “Albion” were very happy when they heard that the “Queen Elizabeth 1st” and the “Duke of Edinburgh” was not going to part of the party.  I heard that “Monmouth” and “Polyphemus” where happy to continue a while longer when they heard that news.   In the making of this story “Illustrious 1 and 2” are happy to bring back memories of those bygone names.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Troy Tempest on 15 August 2016, 11:20:23
Hi Paul
I couldn't get them all in, so BZ for completing the list - seaplane carrier names next perhaps?
Ah well worth a chuckle wasn't it?
I'm certainly feeling "Venerable" watching the Olympics at the moment
Fantastic to hear she will end up in a Museum giving pleasure to many, has you sourced aircraft yet?
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 15 August 2016, 20:40:12
The first coat has been applied of the XCR Epoxy resign.  As the mixture is by weight I mixed small proportions of 32 grams, and applied a very light coat to see how much would be needed to do the whole hull.  So after 6 mixes of 32 grams I covered the whole hull but very lightly, no heavy coat.  Think I will apply a second coat before I apply the fibre matting.  Will leave for 24 hours to ensure it has cured. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 16 August 2016, 11:06:22
OK a bit of help need here please.  I would like to know which would be the best way or better way to lay the fibre matting.  The first photo shows the whole hull covered and would need to be trimmed and cut at the stern and the whole process would need to be done in one go.  Or the other option as photos 2 to 3 show me doing the hull in sections with less waste and can be done section by section.  but there will be joins or over laps in three places or will these not be seen when the epoxy coat is applied.  Your help and advise from anyone who has done this before would be appreciated. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Dennis on 17 August 2016, 00:19:47
Hey Paul, doing it in sections would be easier. Only because you have to get the glass to follow all the bends and contours. As for were the glass laps over each section you will have to fare those areas out, but by the time you do a epoxy coat and primer a lot of it will play out. Just keep in mind not to sand all the way back through were they lap over as you will lose the strength in the seam were they meet. In some cases I have done several coats of resin to give me some build up to help fare it out as well. With a hull as big as this one I don't think a few more ounces will matter in terms of weight. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 18 August 2016, 14:03:40
After a day of learning I have now finished the bonding the fibre matting to the hull.  Not a great perfect job but at leased I have learnt from it.  1st lesson with a large hull with protruding decks cut the fibre to suit the main hull in one piece if possible to suit the hull.  Then cut the protruding decks as required and bond to the area required.  Mix only small amounts of epoxy to work with and work from the centre of the hull out wards.  I used a brush, did try the roller but it would not work well with the Epoxy as it started to go off and you need a tray with a fare amount of epoxy in it.  So I have quite a few air bubbles to contend with and edges around the bilge keel to trim off.  Have a few large areas of runs too.  So when cured I will add more coats and then rub down and trim the high spots.  So I am a bit disappointed with the end result of my hull so will have to work out how to smooth it out.   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 18 August 2016, 21:55:28
Have cut out all the areas which had big air bubbles and areas that just did not bond to the hull.  Sand papered down to remove the high edges.  Used a scalpel  to cut away small areas.  The bilge keel area is the worsted effective area.  Will need to trim and sand down to remove the sharp edge.  I just feel that all that hard work in making the hull than sandpapering it to a nice smooth finish with nice crisp cures and edges ruined by the fibre matting not laying as smooth as one would like. So will wait till tomorrow and cut sections of matting and epoxy them in and try to make the edges as smooth as possible.  Then will try the final couple of coats of epoxy to give me a mirror finish ready for the final rub down.  Here is hoping. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 20 August 2016, 16:00:16
The first two photos show the hull with her first coat of epoxy, the next group show the type off flaws that I have created with trying to do it all in one go with small cuts to help in going round curves.  I have rubbed down the effective areas and have patched the places that I had to cut out.  Once these are cured off, will do as many very thin coats of Epoxy as I can with the amount I have left.  That could be three or four, depending.  Then the rubbing down and using P38 to fill in the blemishes that I find.  Once done will leave for a few days and then give the hull its first coat of primer, and see how she looks, may have to rub down again if any high spots are found.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 20 August 2016, 18:41:08
Hi Paul,

that looks like a lot of sanding needed again. Keep up the good work! What will you do in areas you rub it down to the hull? I think there should be no spots without glass fibre mat. So will you apply a new layer in those areas?

Regards

Arno
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 21 August 2016, 16:43:59
Sure is Arno but the bulk of the work is in patching and then sanding down to remove as much of the high spots as I can.  Then apply more thin coats to build up the layers to that after the final coat it will rub down well with the wet and dry paper.  Then the P38 car filler will be used to smooth out the faults.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 22 August 2016, 06:38:38
Hi Paul,
 I've made three hulls recently (2 escorts and 1 tug) I don't use matting, tried it but found
resin alone goes better. Two separate coats then the laborious job of rubbing down, filling
and priming takes a couple of weeks. The priming shows any problem areas then after more rubbing and filling the hull is eventually ready for it's final primer. It is a satisfying job once completed. But it takes time. I don't envy you with that size hull. Good luck.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 22 August 2016, 20:23:01
Hi Pauline, thanks for the information, we talked about plating the hull, but you never told me who you got the plating from, I think if the hull need to have blemishes covered this may be a good way.  do you have the web site for them.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 24 August 2016, 14:02:57
Hi Paul,
 For my tug hull, I used lead foil from scale link. This was attached in strakes giving the effect of alternate bands for and aft on the hull. with overlaps just as the full scale plating would be. This was then finely rubbed down and primed. Plating details were taken from the builders drawings.
An alternative way is to apply low tack masking tape in the same way. Prime with a few coats and remove the tape. then prime the whole hull. This gives a plating effect but not as pronounced as the foil method. (which can be rubbed down as required to make it less so  if required).
Good luck
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 24 August 2016, 15:10:04
1st coat of epoxy has been applied used a 24 grams of epoxy with 8 grams of hardener (3 to 1 mix) which covered the whole hull with a thin coat and no runs.  Will apply another coat when dry and see how the hull looks.  I think at this point I will then rub down with wet and dry and then apply two more coats and see what the finish look like.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 24 August 2016, 17:32:21
Thanks Pauline, have looked at the site and as I feared the cost for this size hull would be too much.  So your second idea should be tested out and see how it looks on a sample bed.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 24 August 2016, 19:42:32
Hi Paul,
 Yes it is expensive but the tug came out at £40. You superb hull would need a mortgage !
I used Tamiya masking tape in either 6 or 10 mm width or a combination of both.
You'll need a few coats of primer to get the depth required. The top strake should be primed and then the one beneath is taped then the third one is primed and so on. Once the primer has dried remove the tape and you'll get a variation in depth (plating strakes) when satisfied prime the hull and top coat in the correct camo colours.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: colin on 25 August 2016, 10:13:08
doing a fine job Paul..  ^^^
over here in Germany we can get "sprühspachtel" from any DIY shop, which would translate into spray-on body filler, I would imagine you can get something like that in the UK from Halfords or B & Q

I would rather use this spray-on body filler instead of primer, it leaves a thicker coat... and would probably only need a couple of coats..

(http://www.polycell.co.uk/files/2013/04/polycell_quick_drying_polyfilla_spray.jpg)
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 25 August 2016, 14:35:58
Thanks Pauline for the info on the tape.  I have also noted that the hull has a large area along the hull which I assume is thick armoured plating for protection from torpedo strikes, this will also help to hid a few flaws too.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 25 August 2016, 14:36:51
Thanks Colin, will look out for that in B & Q when I go to get my wet and dry paper.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 25 August 2016, 15:00:12
I could do with some of that spray filler, when I play scrabble !! Triple letter score or what ? ha.
The armour belt protects the engine and boiler rooms, I assume you could apply thin plastruct sheet as this is shaped and has a bevel on it in full scale (see HMS Belfast).
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 28 August 2016, 20:24:30
Well the coats I have applied are fully cured and now ready to be rubbed down with wet and dry. Starting with 240 grit then to 400 grit and then 600 for the final rub down  Then I will spray with some filler and rub down with 600 again till I get the finish I am looking for. Then I will bond the engine room and boiler protection plates to both sides and then prime. So a lot of hard work ahead but the hull is not as bad as I first thought it would be.   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 29 August 2016, 20:13:43
Hi Paul,
 The real view will be once the first coat of primer is on. Then it's fill rub down fill rub down etc etc etc. The primer really shows up any blemishes. Sometimes I wish we did not have to paint them. But there again it the same when you make a nice brass funnel. you hate to apply paint to it, John
Haynes feels the same way we he is ready to paint. Good luck and I hope the process isn't too long.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 31 August 2016, 13:54:58
Thanks for the information and the warning of hard work ahead.  I will try the wet and dry first to flatten and smooth out as much as I can then prime.  then will see how much filling is left for me to do.

Post script the new cut decks fit fine and just need to be matched up and trimmed to suit.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 08 September 2016, 15:29:28
Hi Colin, I have a tin of the poly filler.  Did on coat with a few runs, will do a second coat this time much lighter and see how I go from there, doing one side at a time.  Any tips before I rub down, like as this is very light filler how high a grade of wet and dry paper should I use?

Good luck with the open day and have fun.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 09 September 2016, 08:58:31
Hi Paul,

I begin with a 120 grade and finish with 240. Then I apply the primer and after that two coats of paint and one of clear satin varnish. Surface is perfect after that.

Happy sanding :wink1: ^^^

Regards

Arno
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 15 September 2016, 19:22:30
Well I tried using the poly filler on one side of the hull, and it did not work out too well for me.  I found it hard to get it to stick to the epoxy finish.  During the rubbing down got lots of little air holes. Most likely from the way I applied it.  So rubbed it down with 1200 grit wet and dry paper and found that it will not bind to the hull and flaked away in places.  It was very powdery and may be it is OK for small areas.  So I just rubbed  down the other side again and put a full coat of primer on to the hull after I had bonded the two side armoured plate shields that protected the engine room and boilers.  Will leave for a day and then start with a mix of P38 and fill the areas that need attention. Rub down and try another coat of primer and see how she looks and keep going till I feel she looks OK.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 22 September 2016, 17:15:44
Well first rub down done and the second coat of primer applied still more rubbing down but better then before but do not think I am going to get it totally smooth.  But will see.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 22 September 2016, 17:24:18
Have now cut the bow upper deck apertures to reflect the bow.  As this area is solid wood I could not continue the upper deck to go forward to this area, so they are just to show where the deck is. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 22 September 2016, 20:05:43
Hi Paul,

I begin with a 120 grade and finish with 240. Then I apply the primer and after that two coats of paint and one of clear satin varnish. Surface is perfect after that.

Arno

I have 120, 240,320,400,600 and 1200 so plenty to help resolve the problem me hopes Arno.  2017 calender's are out so yours will be on its way.
Paul.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 23 September 2016, 07:13:29
With that variety of papers you surely will succeed, Paul. My favourite is 240 grain (fine enough that it leaves no traces of the paper itself and coarse enough to rub off some material). Thanks for your effort with the calendar. Space in my office is reserved :) :wink1:Arno
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 08 October 2016, 14:07:22
Just a bit quiet of late doing the Scottish Poppy Appeal for my area, so once my garage is free of cans and poppy stuff will be back to the rubbing down and filling again.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 09 October 2016, 13:11:47
Hi Paul,
 I'd rather be doing the poppy appeal - I've been there with the never ending rubbing down and priming of self built hulls. It seems never ending. Then all of a sudden you get there 1 Good luck with both jobs.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 11 October 2016, 19:21:12
Thanks Pauline, will do and I am sure the hull will not miss me for a short while.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 21 November 2016, 18:08:47
 ^^^ :) Poppy work done and now I can get back to my hull and some of the small items that need to be made and built. So should be posting again soon.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 22 November 2016, 21:10:41
Hi Paul,
 I'm in the same situation as yourself, having just finished remembrance.
Once this weekend is over - I'm involved with the Portsmouth dockyard
Victorian festival of Christmas (I'm Mary Poppins, would you believe)
However it does give me the chance to drop in on the superb Surface warship display,
which attends the event each year.
Then next week I can get on with completing the fitting out of HMS Shearwater,
my Kingfisher class corvette.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 23 November 2016, 17:13:30
Just remember to keep the umbrella under control and get back to your house safe and sound and no singing  ;).
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 16 December 2016, 14:35:35
Working on the section of the island that holds the 7 pair's of Carley floats. From the ship plans they are 8ft x 5ft.  so to scale to fit all seven to the side of the island and tether them they must not exceed 1 in in length.(2.5cm) and the tube should be around 0.15 inch.  I have not found anyone who makes that size and the one I can get are to large they are 2.85 cm in length.  So It looks like I will have to get some round polystyrene rods and bend to the shape.  Or make a wood template and then mould.  Only have to to 14 of them. so lots of wood work me thinks. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 03 January 2017, 20:11:04
Well Happy New Year to one and all.  All the best for 2017.

Well had a few goes at making the 8ft x 5ft carley raft and finally finished with the two that I have made.  Looked at making the raft from plastic tubing.  Even with heat could not get the size correct.  To match the scale of 1/96.  That made the raft 1 inch long. So took a bit of 6 mm ply.  Marked the outline of the raft on to it.  Marking the holes to be drilled for the rope work later. Cut out the shape and then filed down to the thickness I wanted and then with sand paper and my drimel rounded the edges until I had the shape that I wanted.  Using a 0.45mm drill bit, I drilled out the marked holes for the wire to make the rope work stand out in my mould.  The wire came from some very fine wiring, 0.25mm strands.  Using tweezers I laced this wire first one way wrapping around the inside of the raft left to right.  Then laced the wire right to left using the same holes to create the crossing effect on the inside of the raft.  I then using some spot solder, solder the ends of the two laced wires to the holes in the raft.  The hardest part was to lace the top circle rope and then the cross ropes that do the complete diameter of the raft. 

Think they came out OK.  Now to make the wood floor with match sticks cut down to match the size and bond into the base of the raft.  Will do that next week.  Once done will make a mould and run off some singles and some doubles for the deck island. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 20 March 2017, 15:57:09
The turret on the right has been pained Medium grey 507B. The other turret is the base primer that I use.  Do not think there is much in it.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Horatio123 on 22 March 2017, 10:55:38
Hi Paul
       Great work on the turrets . Pleased to see you have the paint colour sorted out , I found primer and medium grey to be very close too !!!
        I will be starting the build of the twin 4.5s for my Curacao shortly but have bought the John Haynes gun kits as a base to start on . Used them on my Wild Goose and they build up very nicely and with a little extra detail look great .
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 24 March 2017, 16:28:40
So have a few days visiting vehicle body shops and paint suppliers,  I think I may have found the the match required, but would like a few others to give me their conclusion.  There are three turrets, one in the correct colour one with the match I have found and one with just varnish over the primer.  Can any one tell me which is the original and which is the match found.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: colin on 27 March 2017, 07:50:34
i have no idea what so ever... as i am not all that clued up on Military colours..
but... I would go with the No 2   ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 27 March 2017, 16:49:42
Nice one Colin.  The true colour is number 3 the match found is number two.  So with these two colours I am happy to paint without someone coming along to say its not the correct colour for the period.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 28 March 2017, 09:22:45
Hi Paul,
 Have you checked out Warship Perspectives by Alan Raven ?
This book gives the camflage colours for arships including carriers 1943 to 1944.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 28 March 2017, 11:50:39
Have seen that book on line, but as the period I am building Lusty which is 1939 to 1941 she was not painted in camouflage colours just the normal standard colour scheme, 507B.  So have the necessary match to paint this large monster of a ship.  So very happy now to get on with some more work and water test the hull. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 10 April 2017, 14:56:38
Got down to some painting and finally finished off the underside of the hull ready to have the prop shaft filled with grease before I reinstate the prop shaft and rudder.   Any one got an Idea to how to fill the shaft with the minimum of fuss.

Also completed the making of the 8 ft Carly rafts in batches of two and have bonded them to their positions in the support frame which will be bonded to the side of the island. Just to prime and paint once the bonding has cured and then install the silk strapping to simulate the striping which holds them in place ready for deployment
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: colin on 13 April 2017, 10:45:02
Sorry for the late reply Paul. .. what with the trade fair in Dortmund and all...
I uses a small 5 ml syringe, fill it with what ever... I prefer Vaseline  (bio degradation) the end of the syringe fits inside the tube without the needle ..
Press the plunger ... job done..
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 13 April 2017, 14:04:19
Thanks Colin,  I have found some grease on line so will get this to do the job.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 15 April 2017, 17:39:17
This is the first side were all the aft deck cut outs along with the two sea boat decks have been installed and the rear section of the flight deck is in place.  Now working on the other side and these cut out sections are not identical to the other side.

Also completed the island Carly float deck.   All painted and the strapping in place to add detail to this section of the build.   It will be bonded to the island when the island has been painted and fitted out and positioned on the flight deck.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Troy Tempest on 19 April 2017, 10:00:19
Those Carley Floats look superb, excellent work Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 20 April 2017, 16:46:48
Thanks Roy, they do look good after painting.

That's the Port side done and all sections on the aft end of the land deck have been cut out and ready for detail work when primed
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 20 April 2017, 16:53:20
I have made a go at making the 7 ton crane ready for the lifting arm to be installed along with some items hand made to represent the machinery which runs the crane.   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 24 April 2017, 17:43:23
Finished off the forward deck port side small  gun decks and HADC decks on the port side forward of the last  eight barrel pompom gun.  Props are now in but think I have a tight port side shaft. very tight to turn.  Could be too much grease not sure will remove and check out again.  All others seem to run freely. 

Have positioned the rudder servo and will put in the rudder shaft and check for fitting the control rods.  As for the 7 ton crane I found during my research the all the capital ships had different set ups for the crane jib.  So go two from Deans which match the ones on Lusty.  So the first one has been soldered and will file down and prime.  It fits nicely onto the crane i made from wood.  Will see what it looks like when primed and the machinery (which I still have to make) is fitted on.  If it looks the part then I will do the other side.

Drive motors have been placed on the starboard side for test fitment, Once the lower engine deck is marked up, will fit the engine cradles for all.

So lots of little jobs have been done now need to photograph the result.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 25 April 2017, 21:03:58
Photos as promised. The last one shows the 7 ton crane from 1st design to the last two finished build except for the jib mounts and the gearing and other items to make up the full crane
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Troy Tempest on 27 April 2017, 10:15:14
All coming together nicely there
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 29 April 2017, 11:59:28
Completed the two 7 ton crane cabs, find two large gearing wheels for the base then just need to solder up the other jib and make the runners for the cables and then mount.  Finally prime and paint. Job done.

Thanks Troy, am enjoying the journey and the help when I get stuck.  Thanks Mark for the drawings, great help.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 07 May 2017, 10:24:52
Completed the bow search light decks.  Due to the shape of the bow I needed to use a shape forming tool to enable me to cut the best fit for each of the support legs.  Feel I did a not too bad a job, from the temp plate first made to the final finished units.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 07 May 2017, 10:45:00
The engine bay has now been fitted out with the new home made mounting blocks to hold the motors in place.  These can be removed with just one screw and adjustments made to fit the drive belts.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 07 May 2017, 11:00:19
Fitted all the outer deck support struts to add detail to each deck and also the mounting stays for all the eight antenna mast  along with the HASC support drive system to rotate the HASC units. (which will not be working on this model) Starboard side
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 07 May 2017, 11:07:43
Port side
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 10 May 2017, 12:09:42
Problem has now occurred when applying the top section of the hull with paint.  I found after removing the masking tape, the styrene section of the armoured plating;  the primer is not bonding to it.  Every time I tried to patch, the pulled off section more comes away only larger areas each time.  To me it looks like the styrene section is at fault.  The whole hull was primed with the same primer and no problems with any other area other than the styrene sections.  It is affecting all three paint areas above and below the water line. I am using a low tack masking tape, but for some reason the primer will not bond to it. 


Can any one point me in the correct direction as to what I have done wrong.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: ship's doctor on 10 May 2017, 12:53:49
Hi Paul
Really sorry to see the problems you have had with the primer!
Thoughts - sometimes styrene has a shiny coating on one side, might not take paint well? This could be helped by rubbing down with wet&dry to improve the key of the paint?
Alternatively, some of the halfords primer is formulated for plastic - might work? Could use a test piece so as not to risk the model.
Or maybe some coating left from the styrene manufacture which doesn't like paint?
Sure there is someone on the forum who has seen this and will know what to do.
Really shaping up as a great model!
James
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 10 May 2017, 14:44:10
Hi James,
The section has been rubbed down and the primer applied last summer and has had plenty of time to show any faults with bonding.  Its only now on both side that the lack of bonding has happened.  I am going to try and dispense the spray can contents into a open bottle to try and brush paint to avoid using any masking tape and see if it bonds better, but will have to wait for a warmer few days.

Thanks for the advice.  ^^^ 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: rondean on 10 May 2017, 16:25:08
Dear Paul
 it you are using styrene, wipe it down with some meths first (clean off any contamination ) and you must use Plastic Primer on plastic, ordinarily primers will not etch in to the surface, they are for metal.
 plastic primer contains Zylene to eat in to the surface.
 hope it helps
 Ron

Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 10 May 2017, 17:37:52
Hi Ron,
Thanks for the information.  It so happens that the match for the period top coat matches the Halford primer to paint plastic parts on cars.  So will rub down the top section of the styrene on the armoured plate section above the water line and respray with the top coat primer and see if that works.  If it does then I will rub down the area below the water line, prime with the same.  Once dry will coat with the red top coat which is also a red primer.  If all goes well will then hand paint the water line in mat black, and finally cover all the paint work in a satin lacquer. ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 11 May 2017, 07:12:28
Hi Paul,

it really hurts to see the problems you have. Ron is right. If you follow his advice you will get it right.

For styrene I personally use acid primer from my local body shop. This primer works also for the glass fibre hull. It "melts" into the styrene.

First I sand the styrene parts with a very fine coarse, then wash off any debris with hot water and a strong detergent, rinse off with water, let it dry over night and then apply the acid primer.

Always test with a piece of scrap first (guess why I say so ???).

I am sure you will be able to repair it, but lots of sanding needed :'(

Good luck and kind regards

Arno
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 11 May 2017, 17:33:49
Have done the first side and all went well.  Got hold of some yellow coloured frog tape, and used the other (Green) to pull off the old paint.  Cleaned the who sheet, rub down with 600 wet and dry and then cleaned off with Meth.  Now working on the other side and should be finished off on Friday.  If so will then post new photo with her in her full coat of paint ready for the satin lacquer to be applied.  This should help keep the paint safe from scratches.  ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 14 May 2017, 15:56:52
All repair work completed and she has been kitted out with some of the detail which will be fully installed later.  I now have to kit out all the minor decks and install them in position. once done the main flight deck and hangar deck will be worked on to install.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 15 May 2017, 12:33:40
Thanks for the great advice Ron, the plastic primer worked wonders and saved me a lot of heartache. ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 23 May 2017, 19:21:56
Made a little more work on the hull and painted all the decks dark green.  Also made up the port side forward deck and installed all the railing.  Just need to install the lighting when I have finished off the running gear setup.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 23 May 2017, 23:13:28
I thought I would show how the port deck was constructed within the hull so that it did not take up too much room and would allow the hanger deck to be installed when being shown.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 23 May 2017, 23:22:17
Some photos of the outrigger decks having been painted dark green, which was the color she was painted in 1940
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 24 May 2017, 17:46:20
Starboard forward upper and lower decks now completed with all the work required to encase the decks ready for lighting.  Much the same as Port side, with one exception.  There is a small cabin to the rear of the lower starboard deck.  Was planing to put that in, but found that I could not install and seal the deck with it in place due to lack of space.  So left it out and do not think anyone will notice, just me.

I was wondering how to fit the four large search lights so they could rotate by hand and found the centre of each light base had a recess into which I cut down a 11 mm wood pole and then sanded down till level with the base of the light.  Will bond the wood section to the deck and then place the searchlight onto it.  This will hold it in place and allow for it to be rotated and removed when taking to the lake and shows.

I did the same with the 6 pom pom guns which I am painting at the moment.  Each of them has a circle at the base.  Measure the circumference and then using a compass marked out the circle and then cut with a fretsaw from 3 mm thick marine ply and then using my dremel made 6 perfectly circular mounts to which I can bond to the decks and Island and again they can been seen to rotate and remove for transporting.   

Will post photos later when the guns and search lights are in place.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Troy Tempest on 26 May 2017, 14:56:55
I am really enjoying watching progress Paul, she's looking lovely
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 28 May 2017, 21:17:27
Thanks Troy for your comments glad you're enjoying the build.  She soon be ready for water test for balance and water line check, before I put on the deck and start with the lifts.  Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 30 May 2017, 17:51:16
The last of the side decks completed and ready to be installed into the hull.  That leaves me the quarter deck and the chain deck to do.  Pom pom's are all painted and ready to be mounted on the finished model.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 05 June 2017, 18:33:39
Here is the photo with the above deck installed and all looks well.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 19 June 2017, 19:43:39
The forward lift cage has been made and positioned in the hull with the lower deck supports in place to obtain the lift height.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 19 June 2017, 19:50:25
First set up for the lift platform which did not work.  I had even gut two slide grooves for the end sections top and bottom of the lift to slide but it was not going to work.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 19 June 2017, 19:58:43
So now working on the plan I drew up earlier the only change is I will replace the bolt with a 4mm square center point and attached to it a 100 mm rack which will then be pulled down or pushed up by a pinion attached to a drive motor with top and bottom stops fitted  will post photos when the rack and pinion arrive and has been fitted.   The reason for the change from the 6 mm bolt as in the photos is that the pinion teeth will not mess with the bolt with out jumping.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 23 June 2017, 16:14:20
Took Lusty down to the pond and carried out a water line test and make sure there was no water leaks.  She floats fine and the weight I put in is about right as I still have the two 12v 7 amp dry cell batteries to install and the deck with all the aircraft and the island.  If I need any more weight I can install some lead flashing to finisher her off.   Photo of her on the pond to come when I remove them from my phone SD card.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Troy Tempest on 26 June 2017, 13:34:43
...and suddenly she looks small!  :grin1:
Funny how a model that almost seems to fill your garage suddenly seems to shrink on the water, still she'll be lot larger than most other models that she will meet on the pond when sailing I daresay
I bet that feels like a good stage to have reached Paul?  ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 27 June 2017, 17:11:09
Thanks Troy,  She I am well please with the result so far.  The water line should fall into place when the last of the equipment and batteries are installed.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 28 June 2017, 15:18:39
I have made the rack to replace the steel bolt and fitted it to the under side of the lift.  Made adjustments to the base floor of the lift so that the rack can pass through and the base will be fixed to the lift shaft.  It will hold the drive motor underneath, with on off switches to be marked and fitted.

I am looking for a good supplier of small 12 v motors with gearing attached to reduce the speed to a nice slow movement up and down.  Anyone know of a good supplier to who I can give the specifications of my pinion and rack.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 28 June 2017, 15:30:16
Have completed the chain deck and kitted out this deck with the 4 x 6 lbs guns, lockers, reels anchor chains and capstan along with bollards etc. Also the first of the front searchlight platforms has been railed and light fitted, along with ladders and door.  Once the portholes have been fitted she will really look the part.  She goes on display at the local Maritime Museum on the 21/22/23 of July.  So looking forward to the comments from the people who want to see her.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 20 July 2017, 23:01:23
Had a lot of work to do to get her ready for this weekend show.  The quarter deck fitted out and installed.  Lift section fitted and ready for the flight deck.   Cut the rear section first and made cut outs for the rudder and the drive motors.  secured and trim.  The forward section then cut and a larger opening for the electrics and the lift.  Finally placed the mount for the island to sit on so it can be removed and refitted in the same place.  Wiring for lighting on the island run through to the under side and ready to wire up.  Final gave the island its top coat and fitted all the port hole covers.  Even had time to mount the shop boats with lowering chains from the booms.  Trial fit of all pom pom, HA fire control units and all searchlights.  She looks great.  Will take more photos at the show and a video and put it on Flickr.  Hope you like.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Dennis on 21 July 2017, 01:42:39
Hey Paul she looks amazing. Can only imagine all the hours you have put in so far on this build. ^^^ ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: colin on 21 July 2017, 09:16:01
certainly coming along in leaps and bounds..  ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 21 July 2017, 09:51:41
Hi Paul, she looks great :)Good luck for the show! Please post the link for the video here later ^^^
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 21 July 2017, 17:27:56
Thanks guys, need to move the build along after being asked by my local maritime museum to bring her along with my other boats.  Will post link when done.
There is still lots of detail and fitting to be made and add to the side of the hull and the island requires more work.  Alsp the deck will need to be primed and painted.  Lots to do still.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Troy Tempest on 24 July 2017, 11:54:00
She's really starting to come together now - well done
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 24 July 2017, 20:22:10
Here is the link to the model on display at the Irvine Maritime Museum on the 22/7/2017.   

https://youtu.be/0B2siOJAhZU

Also link to photos.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/92998762@N02/albums/72157686616807116
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 25 July 2017, 08:04:12
Thanks for sharing ^^^
Some very fine models and a nice museum :)Yours is really a huge one - very impressive!
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 25 July 2017, 14:03:46
Thanks guys, she is really looks good now and the effort put in is rewarding to see.  The pleasure to see something from just the plan.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 24 August 2017, 17:25:41
Sorry for the quiet spell but been working out how best to install the carley floats to the side of the hull.  First two attempts/ideas have failed and now seem to have got the correct way on this build.  I have cut a one piece of 2mm styrene to cover the full length of the walkway around the island up to the 8 barrel pom pom aft of the island. This section of styrene also included enough depth down the side of the hull to mount the 12 carley floats the same way as I mounted the floats to the side of the island.  The section had to have cuts made to that I could reduce to the area I needed with the end sections heated to form the curves at each end of this section.  A small platform was made from 2mm ply to hold the fixing points for the bottom of the floats.  Small cuts 3mm long and 1mm wide was made in the side walk way to hold the top cables for the securing straps of each carley. Hope the photos show the idea.   
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 26 August 2017, 06:40:17
Hi Paul,
 What are the lamp like fittings above the guard rail on the carley raft deck ?
I can't see on the photo as it will not enlarge enough. It's certainly an epic build.
Much credit to you.
Best wishes
Pauline
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 26 August 2017, 12:18:05
I beleive they are sets of lights connected to the flight deck for landing and take off and deck parties being aware what is happening on the flight deck.  There are sets of this light all around the side of the hull in groups of three.  See Photos
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: minerva on 29 August 2017, 22:06:39
Thanks for that Paul
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 23 November 2017, 12:33:55
Just to let you know I have finished the poppy appeal and about to go and visit my family on Oz and celebrate my 50th wedding anniversary in the new year.  So will get back to my build in 2018 and continue the work.  All the best to everyone, have a great Christmas with all your family about and a happy New Year when it come. 
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: Dennis on 23 November 2017, 14:31:55
Wow 50 years, that's awesome!! Happy anniversary to you both. Merry Christmas and happy new year to you as well.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 24 November 2017, 16:03:45
Thanks Dennis and to you and all your family.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 30 January 2018, 17:14:04
Well hope everyone had a great Christmas and a Happy New Year.  Sorry I could not bring the sun and heat back from down under.  So I am now back to working in the cold, but the small heater is working over time.  Will not be bonding at this time so maybe painting the flight deck would be a good start.
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: swiftdoc on 31 January 2018, 09:32:13
Welcome back, Paul! I hope you enjoyed the festivities. Keep up the good work! You probably will have withdrawal symptoms after such a long period without modelling. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: HMS Illustrious.
Post by: paul swainson on 28 May 2018, 22:13:15
Sorry for the long delay in returning to my build but have been involved with a 1/84 build of HMS Victory for a 95 year old gent who died and did not complete the model.  So as I have took on the model to complete it for his two sons and the children. 

I have now after some long detail nights bonded the carley floats to the flight deck and bonded the mounting bracket to the the hull and the deck.  As there was four different surfaces and to be careful what bonding agent I needed to use.  Well it is on and the pictures show the full detail of the work completed showing all the floats in place.

The flight deck has been painted a lighter sea gray so the she would blend in with the water.  One coat so far.  The next build project will be the main island forward 6 barrel pom poms and the ammunition racks and mounting platforms.  Then the 8 radio mast have to work out what material to use and how to cut them out.

There is a short video here of the whole ship with a quick look into the drive motors mounting.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/92998762@N02/27546527797/in/album-72157640833731444/